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Getting Language Tuition to help | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 17 of 28 01 July 2014 at 4:23am | IP Logged | |||||
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There's no point arguing about tutoring. Either you find it useful or you don't. I can't speak for iguamon, emk and
the others who have mentioned using tutors, but all I can say is that, in my opinion, Skype, the Internet and online tutoring have changed the game of language self-teaching. Now I can interact with a native speaker as if I were in the country - well, sort of. Isn't being able to speak the language and with native speakers the fundamental goal of learning a language? I can't for the life of me understand why someone would forego the opportunity to use such a resource, especially if money is not the problem. Hell, if I could afford it, I would have at least three different tutors every week. On the other hand, I recognize that some language learners are not interested in really speaking the language because they have little interest in speaking with native speakers. They are more interested in reading and writing. Even then I think tutoring is useful, but obviously the emphasis is not on the spoken language. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 18 of 28 01 July 2014 at 5:43am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm interested in speaking, but only when I'm actually in the L2 country, and then any native speaker is good enough for me. If I've done listening, reading, writing and preferably also shadowing at home, I cope just fine when an opportunity comes up.
I'm not arguing, just pointing out the limits of tuition and the alternatives to it. Edited by Serpent on 01 July 2014 at 5:47am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 19 of 28 01 July 2014 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
I still don't see what are the limits of tutoring or the alternatives. But all that is besides the point; either you like tutoring or you don't. For those of us who do like it, the number one advantage, I think, is correction. The plain truth is that despite all the shadowing and work at home we tend to make mistakes that often go undetected and eventually become bad habits that are hard to get rid of. Tutoring helps eliminate most of these problems The other advantage of working with a good tutor is the joy of actually speaking the language. Of course, there's nothing wrong with speaking to yourself and diligently shadowing recordings. But this does not compare to actually hearing yourself speaking the language to a live person. The real question is: do what want to speak the language, yes or no? Working with a tutor is the next best thing to being in the country. What's wrong with that? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 20 of 28 01 July 2014 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
A tool that gives you instant feedback on whether you are screwing up or not. That's much better as a tool than Anki or LR. Anki just tells you whether you remembered a word (within a certain context given the cards), and LR doesn't really do that at all. Having a tutor and native speaker around who can correct you instantly and maybe even provide you with apt resources gives you a peer-to-peer feedback loop that you can't really adequately replace with materials (online or offline). By the way, "just a tool" doesn't mean anything. Gravity is just a theory. Yet you don't not believe in gravity (because you are clearly not falling off of the face of the earth). The fact that it's a tool doesn't really say anything about the quality of that tool. And that's rather important to take into account when making an evaluation ;) 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5235 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 21 of 28 01 July 2014 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
For me there are a number of pros and cons related to having a tutor. Personally I've been tutored in two languages, but always face-to-face rather than over the Internet. If you have a plan and you go into a tutoring session and you meet all of your objectives, then it was worth the money. However in both cases for me this was more of a student/teacher classroom experience, since in both instances we worked through a textbook, then used native materials for reading and pronunciation. However if you're just going to "have a chat" with a native speaker you can find a lot of ways which are much cheaper. Tutors vary in quality, like all teachers some are better than others. Also some students are better than others. In my view just having someone who speaks the language and then calls themselves a tutor isn't much better than doing a language exchange. What if any qualifications do they have for teaching? Will they be able to help you with grammar? Do they have a lesson plan? I suppose I was lucky in that my tutors taught Italian and French in schools to natives so I knew they were qualified to teach and weren't just native speakers who've decided to become a tutor. Having said that I don't want to denigrate people who tutor but aren't officially teachers, I'm just pointing out that quality varies in all human endeavours. Do you need a tutor to learn pronunciation? Not really, I've had some wonderful language exchanges with native speakers who have been very helpful with correction of my pronunciation. But don't expect them to know why something is "grammatically incorrect" because they normally only know that it "sounds wrong". But if you're paying a tutor they must know WHY it is incorrect in order to explain it to you. I have spent a LOT of money on tutoring, on the order of $3000 over a number of years. Do I begrudge this money, well.... yes actually. I believe now I have sufficient knowledge about the process of learning a language that I could learn to speak a language without paying for a tutor. Of course I would still spend money on courses, books and other resources, but I think I would get by just fine by finding natives for language exchanges, watching films, shadowing, etc. The only thing I haven't really ever done in order to learn a language is take an actual paid class in a classroom with other students, like at a community college. I've seen the results of a class locally and the students came out with a fair level of French. I've considered this myself for Mandarin, since the class is actually cheaper than tutoring. So for me, I'm not going to bother with tutoring in the future. But I still think it is good for some people who have the inclination and the money for it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 22 of 28 01 July 2014 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
I know that tutoring or working with an external resource is not for everybody, but let me look at a few situations where, in my opinion, you would be crazy to not consult with such a person: 1. If you plan on passing a CFER exam, especially at the higher levels such as B and C, you should avail yourself of the services of a tutor who is familiar with the exams. Considering the time and money involved in preparing for these exams, it is, in my mind, the height of folly to not spend a bit more and use a professional tutor. 2. You have a job interview that requires a speaking in the target language. Why not practice with a tutor? 3. You have prepared your CV and a cover letter in the target language for a job application. Before sending them in, shouldn't you have a native speaker look at them and suggest any corrections? The alternative of course is to go it alone. I don't need a tutor, you say. Be my guest, and good luck. Edit: the CFER exam should be the CEFR exam. I've left the original intact so that the later references in the thread will be relevant. Edited by s_allard on 02 July 2014 at 9:44pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 23 of 28 01 July 2014 at 9:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
What I meant is that it's a tool like any other, and even a good tutor should be just one of the many tools you use. Newbies are often led to believe that classes/tutors/immersion abroad are essential, and I'm just making sure to correct that. There's no single list of things a language learner can't do without. Of course deliberately avoiding some things (like grammar learning) can be too much of a fuss to be worth it. I agree that native speakers' feedback is useful, but it doesn't have to be in the form of tuition. What works best for me is making friends with language geeks, especially those who aren't learning Russian :P Also, while reading/listening/LR don't give you instant corrections, in the long run they'll contribute much more to improving your style, vocabulary, knowledge of collocations (especially reading). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 24 of 28 01 July 2014 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm not saying it's essential. By the way, I don't think immersion is necessary (though beneficial) and I hate group classes with a passion, but 1-on-1 tutoring is extremely useful. I think you can do without a tutor should you need to (and I have), but you are making it harder on yourself by not using someone who can correct you. And by a tutor I don't necessarily mean a teacher, but a tutor, which is a wholly different role for my money.
Reading gives you a whole lot of vocabulary but you need to practice writing to be able to use it effectively. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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