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Nicholas Ostler | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6662 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 1 of 7 11 May 2007 at 7:38am | IP Logged |
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I've just started reading "Empires of the Word: A Language History of the World" by Nicholas Ostler. The book is a history of major languages, but my point here is a comment on the back cover.
The author, Nicholas Ostler, is described as "a scholar with a working knowledge of twenty-six languages." He has degrees from Oxford University in Greek and Latin as well as a Ph.D. in linguistics from MIT where he studied under Noam Chomsky. Given the subject matter, I'd expect at least a few of those languages to be classical languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Journeyer Triglot Senior Member United States tristan85.blogspot.c Joined 6871 days ago 946 posts - 1110 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German Studies: Sign Language | Message 2 of 7 11 May 2007 at 8:05am | IP Logged |
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That sounds like an interesting book...and you are probably right about a few of them being classical languages...I have a professor of Coptic, who, judging by the books I saw in his office, probably speaks quite a few classical or relatively obscure languages (Welsh, Irish, Latin, for example). The funny thing is, although he can apparently speak some dialects from Spanish, his actual knowledge of Spanish, according to another student I know who speaks Spanish, is usable, but somewhat mediocre. I can't speak for his English, 99% of the time he speaks to me in German during class.
What does a "working knowledge" mean? I don't understand when people say "such-and-such a knowledge" of a language. I suppose it's a matter of personal taste and comfort level, but I suppose I could say I have a working knowledge of Spanish, German, French, and Esperanto, but as I can really only use German and Spanish to any truly usable degree (French and Esperanto, at this point, I can only get around with at a "tourist-level") I wouldn't state the other two unless I made this clear. If one counts how many languages one can talk easily about - but not in - than I can add a few more languages to the list...but I cannot yet use them hardly at all. A speaking knowledge is another matter, too. Does that mean an educated, expressive ability, or merely a basic, knowledge, able to say a few things, but really have a convesation beyond the "where's this at" "where are you from" level. Edited by Journeyer on 11 May 2007 at 8:05am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6442 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 3 of 7 11 May 2007 at 1:41pm | IP Logged |
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I'm not an authority on this, by any means, but I'd consider a "working knowledge" to be enough to get by for some intended purpose. It could theoretically be purely spoken, or purely written, but would imply some degree of passive proficiency and likely some degree of active use. Ie, I'd consider someone conversational in a language to have a 'working knowledge' of it, even if his/her speech is somewhat halting and almost regardless of the quality of grammar used. Likewise, I'd consider someone who can read source materials in a language to have a working (possibly only written and passive) knowledge of it.
A speaking knowledge is harder to define, but I'd definitely not consider the phrasebook "how are you?" level to qualify. Edited by Volte on 11 May 2007 at 1:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6662 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 4 of 7 12 May 2007 at 9:56am | IP Logged |
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In this context, I suppose "working knowledge" means that he can read and do research in those languages. It doesn't say anything about spoken ability.
The book is interesting so far. I have done some skipping around, and the part that I find particularly interesting is his projections about which languages will be the most widely spoken in the future. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Journeyer Triglot Senior Member United States tristan85.blogspot.c Joined 6871 days ago 946 posts - 1110 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German Studies: Sign Language | Message 5 of 7 12 May 2007 at 11:10am | IP Logged |
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Which languages does he predict being widely spoken? And does he predict anything about which form of them? What I mean is, English has had such a huge impact on other languages that the forms spoken today might be much more "anglocized" versions that what are spoken today.
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| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6662 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 6 of 7 14 May 2007 at 9:17am | IP Logged |
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I've skipped ahead to the final chapters, and he believes the future of English is pretty tough to predict. The birth rate in English-speaking countries is comparatively low, so some other languages could surpass it. The sheer popularity of English around the world suggests that it will be a major language for quite some time.
Ostler seems most optimistic about Chinese minority languages and Indian languages moving up. Arabic has a fairly young group of people speaking it as well. Edited by SamD on 15 May 2007 at 9:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 7 14 May 2007 at 2:07pm | IP Logged |
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At the end of this interview he declares his affection for Sanscrit in this way "I suppose I like the fact that it is so difficult (coming from English, certainly), yet so familiar in another way (coming at it from Latin, Greek and Russian).". That accounts for five languages out of the 26.
Strangely enough the English Wiki only gives him credit for 18 languages. The Esperanto viki however has settled for the number "26 malsamajn lingvojn", but postulates that it is a direct translation of the English text. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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