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Understanding some Latin from... | ||
Tags: Comprehension/understanding | Latin | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| Daren Diglot Newbie Hungary Joined 6248 days ago 10 posts - 10 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, English Studies: German, Russian | Message 1 of 7 09 November 2007 at 11:31am | IP Logged | |||||
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We learned about the medieval Latin gregorian chant "Dies irae" in school, and I found out that I actually understood many words, and sometimes, quite short but complete sentences. I looked at the Hungarian translation, and found out that many times, I was correct about the meaning of the Latin word/sentence.
So my question is, how much Latin would one understand, if he speaks English, Spanish and Russian fluently? These languages, I think help in understanding some Latin for the following reasons: English: Maybe a few similiarities in grammar, like the usage of the word "in" being both Indo-European languages, but the important part here is the latinate part of the English vocabulary. In the chant, I found many words that are in English too, just in a bit different form. Spanish: It's a neo-latin language, so many similiarities in vocabulary and in grammar, even though Spanish lost the case system. Even with my beginner level in Spanish, I noticed familiar words. Russian: Maybe some borrowed vocabulary, but the more important thing here is the Russian grammar: The logic of Russian grammar is quite similar to Latin grammar in some things, for example, in Russian "without" is expressed with a "без"(bez) before the noun, in Latin I think it's "dez". Russian lacks the definite article, so does Latin. The Latin phrase: "Jus primera noctis" is, in logic and word order, completely like the Russia phrase: "Дом юного техника" grammatically. So what do you think, how much Latin would one understand, with the vocabulary of English and Spanish, the grammar of Spanish, and the logic of Russian grammar? BTW.: What does "Дом юного техника" mean? I saw this in a Russian cartoon, and it was written on a big museum-like place full of robots and a spaceship simulator. I know that it is something like "house of young engineers" but I'm not sure. Edited by Daren on 09 November 2007 at 11:36am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6665 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes  Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil | Message 2 of 7 10 November 2007 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'll venture a guess: close to nothing. You might recognize some words that are cognate to English and Spanish, but that doesn't mean they have the same meanings. And the Russian case system might share some structural similarities, but that wouldn't help you much if you don't know the case endings. And the verbal system is very different. However, knowledge of these languages certainly helps you when you're learning Latin. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6439 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 3 of 7 10 November 2007 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'd venture that it depends on if it's Classical or Vulgar Latin. Via Italian, I can read a fair amount of the latter, due to cognates and the decay of the case system; with Classical, I tend to be entirely lost. There are some 'false friends', certainly, but there are also true cognates. I doubt Spanish would be significantly less useful than Italian for this. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Emilia Newbie Italy Joined 6140 days ago 26 posts - 27 votes Speaks: Italian* | Message 4 of 7 02 February 2008 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
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A lot of words from that very chant belong to the canon of the common knowledge of Latin most of the people educated in Europe have even if they were not formally taught the language. Words such as dies, rex, saeclum, judex, mors, natura, liber, scriptum, mundus, dignus, majestas, salvare, recordare, benigne, cura, ignus, not to mention ergo, ante or cum, are rather common not only in their altered forms in other languages, but are simply heard of in cultural context.
Even if you speak a language whose word for nature has nothing to do with natura, throughout your schooling you will have encountered philosophers who named their works, for example, De rerum natura, which will probably be followed by translation to your language; you will somewhere have heard of Hannibal ante portas and thus be able to recognise the latter even if the word for door in your language is something entirely different; finally, you will simply have encountered expressions such as agnus Dei, lege artis or lacrimae Christi, not to mention at least about a dozen of Latin sententiae you will have heard of somewhere, in some occassion, or will have been quoted to, even if Latin does not make part of your repertoire at school. The simple fact is that in most parts of Europe, one cannot really avoid coming in contact with some Latin during their schooling - and this is especially true for a country who had Latin as an official language until about two centuries ago. It is no wonder you recognise some of that upon stumbling at previously unknown Latin text - not only it is the result of the connections you can make if you studied any language developed from vulgar Latin, but also of the fact you were exposed to some 'cultural' Latin, whether consciously or not, throughout your schooling. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 5 of 7 05 February 2008 at 3:14am | IP Logged | |||||
I think Дом юного техника is some sort of shop, albeit in a real one you wouldn't find such cool stuff ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sulpicius Diglot Groupie United States Joined 6027 days ago 89 posts - 91 votes Speaks: English*, Latin Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 6 of 7 27 May 2008 at 5:55am | IP Logged | |||||
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Sure you'll be able to recognize quite a few of the words. Nonetheless, many of the compound verbs have tons of meanings, not just one, for example:
Contendo, contendere, contendi, contentus - (trans.) stretch, tighten; exert; (intrans.) hasten; strive; contend A lot of verbs have these many different meanings, and usually textbook have u memorize all of them. It's not like these are just elaborated a great deal. In fact, in the Oxford Latin Dictionary, the verb "fero, ferre, tuli, latus" had about 36 different entries I think. Plus, the case problem renders actually understanding complex sentences difficult, if not impossible. Exxclesiastical Latin is highly simplistic in syntax, since it was meant for average individuals (Vulgate comes from Vulgus, Vulgi (m/n) (Latin word for the Mob, the populace). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6272 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 7 of 7 15 June 2008 at 10:19am | IP Logged | |||||
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I would say you could recognise a little bit of Latin from Spanish and Latin-origin words in English. It would not be a big help - it would be like making out vague shapes in thick fog.
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