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Can I ’reach’ a native speaker? | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| danutza Diglot Newbie Romania Joined 6144 days ago 14 posts - 14 votes Speaks: Romanian*, English Studies: French | Message 1 of 13 29 January 2008 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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I had a discussion with my brother or rather a debate concerning how profficient can a foreign language learner get.Is it possible to know a foreign language so thoroughly as to be mistaken for a native? To actually think directly in that language? And I am reffering to a learner who has studied for a long time and even lives among the speakers of the language he is acquiring.So can his being of a foreign origin become at some point un-noticeable?
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| rob Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6165 days ago 287 posts - 288 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese, Norwegian, Mandarin | Message 2 of 13 29 January 2008 at 11:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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I recently met this Greek guy, who I was sure was English. When I was told he was Greek, I didn't believe the person telling me, and when he said he sometimes had problems with his English, I thought he was joking. He not only had an English accent, but one correct for the region, and also used a lot of region-specific slang, as well as general slang.
This is the only time I have met someone who matches your description, but they do exist! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ChristopherB Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 6316 days ago 851 posts - 1074 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, German, French | Message 3 of 13 30 January 2008 at 4:52am | IP Logged | ||
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There is a French guy who can speak Chinese at what appears to be a native level. There are videos of him on the net, and he even joined the forum a few months back.
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| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6768 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 4 of 13 30 January 2008 at 6:39am | IP Logged | ||
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My German teacher had only the slightest accent, and his English was superb in all other respects, grammatically flawless and probably better than most natives. He also spoke French, Spanish, and Bulgarian.
He always said developing a perfect accent showed respect to the language. Such people exist, but they're a rarity. Most people give up improving well before that point, or allow errors to fossilize early on without correction. Edited by Captain Haddock on 30 January 2008 at 6:42am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 13 30 January 2008 at 9:59am | IP Logged | ||
You are speaking about two very different things. It is not very hard to learn to think directly in several languages. I have however seen some references that may indicate that even an advanced learner on some subconscious level draws in his/her native language even when thinking in the other language, - but I guess that this is one of the many areas in brain research that are still open to discussion. For all practical purposes it is possible, and it can be done long before you are even close to being an advanced learner. To learn a language to the extent that you can't be distinguished from a 'true' native even by other true natives is quite another matter. Not only do you have to learn a lot, but you also have to mimick some special kind of natives. For instances you can know more about English than even most natives and be able to say or write anything you want to without even the slightest hesitation, but if your English isn't the same as some specific kind of English then you'll still not be able to fool native speakers. If you are born and raised somewhere and develop your own personal idiolect then you will be accepted as a native, although not quite 'one of us'. But a foreigner whose idiolect doesn't sound exactly like a pre-existing kind of English will not be accepted as a native, but only as a very advanced student who has not quite managed to take the last few steps. And it is of course the same thing with almost any other language - you have to choose one variant of the language and mimick that in all details. And besides you also have to adher to the clothing style(s) and nonverbal mannerisms of a certain location. Otherwise you will always stick out from the crowd. Personally I doubt that this can be done without living for some time at a relevant location. Edited by Iversen on 30 January 2008 at 3:34pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6675 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 6 of 13 30 January 2008 at 11:05am | IP Logged | ||
I have known several people who speak Spanish like native speakers, but they are foreigners. They are people who live in Spain or have lived here for several years. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| shapd Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6149 days ago 126 posts - 208 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Italian, Spanish, Latin, Modern Hebrew, French, Russian | Message 7 of 13 30 January 2008 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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There have a been a few Scandinavians who have lived and worked in Britain for many years and who have native fluency even when in the extreme situation of working on camera for TV. Ulrike Johnson comes to mind. She is Swedish but went to school in Britain and has I believe lived here ever since.
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| vanityx3 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6461 days ago 331 posts - 326 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Japanese | Message 8 of 13 30 January 2008 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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It happens all the time to people who live in another country for a few years and are actually wanting to learn the other countries language. I knew a guy who was from Italy, he'd lived in America for 5 years or so, and he spoke American English just like a native. He said in Italy he was taught British English and a lot of words that are never used in America. But you can't hear any accent.
I also know a girl with almost the same story but she moved to America from Honduras, and you would think she lived her all her life. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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