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"Ghost Verbs" | ||
Tags: Verbs/Conjugation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| jmlgws Senior Member Canada Joined 7102 days ago 102 posts - 104 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Spanish, Mandarin | Message 9 of 20 28 July 2005 at 11:11am | IP Logged | ||
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The root for deduce, produce and reduce is from Latin ducere, to lead:
deduce produce reduce Using the same source, the root for perceive, deceive, receive and conceive is capere, take or seize. Incidentally I really like the etymology section of major dictionaries. My default online dictionary is Encarta, but you can find the roots at other major online dictionaries, e.g. Yahoo,American Heritage etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Darobat Diglot Senior Member Joined 7188 days ago 754 posts - 770 votes Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Latin | Message 10 of 20 30 July 2005 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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What about the russian words
открыват / открыть - to open закрыват / закрыть - to close скрывать / скрыть - to hide прикрыва 00; / прикрыть - to cover покрыват / прокрыть - to cover (as in paint) укрывать / укрыть - to shelter перекрыв 90;ь / перекрыт 00; - to re-cover After all this, and the root pair крывать / крыть doesn't exist. Where did those come from? (Why does this forum screw up stuff written in russian? It removes the ь on the end of some words and adds the crazy symbols and junk everywhere.) Edited by Darobat on 30 July 2005 at 5:12pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Giordano Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 7174 days ago 213 posts - 218 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Cantonese, Greek | Message 11 of 20 31 July 2005 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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Interesting how, in the romance languages, the word for leadership/to lead/leader, which should be duccin/ducir/ductor (sp), duzione/durre/duttore (it), and duction/duire/ducteur (fr), is non-existent. Instead, such a word must be borrowed from English, as in lder (sp), leader/lideur/liedeur (fr- I've seen all three), and leader (it).
The Acadmie might want to think about adding le ducteur to their list of "proper" French terms. I can almost see the OLF (Office de la Langue Francaise) enacting such a thing... on the back of Office XP: "MICROSOFT- le ducteur dans le secteur logiciel" (leader in the field of software) on my iPod "APPLE- la compagnie de logiciel ductrice" (leading software company...) on the sides of movng vans: "Dmenagement Lapage- les ducteurs du dmenagement au Qubec!" (the leaders of moving in Quebec!) in want ads: "Le candidat idal est un ducteur naturel (born leader?), exprience minimum de cinq ans requise." Oh ya... I better call them with this one... Edited by Giordano on 31 July 2005 at 8:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| telephos Triglot Newbie Canada Joined 6267 days ago 29 posts - 31 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Russian Studies: Norwegian, Ancient Greek | Message 12 of 20 28 September 2007 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | ||
The original root is крыть (the verb exists!). The perfective verb покрыть has two corresponding imperfectives, покрывать and крыть. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 13 of 20 29 September 2007 at 4:16am | IP Logged | ||
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The mechanism in Russian has something to do with aspect: first you have a simple verb, - it's mostly perceived as being imperfective. Then you add a variety of prefixes to get a more precise meaning, but in the process the verb also becomes perfective. Now you have maybe half a dozen perfective verbs and still only one imperfective verb, and you want to be just as precise in the imperfective aspect, so you construct new imperfective verbs from the compounded perfective verbs, mostly by adding -ывать. So in the end you have to sets of verbs plus one extra imperfective 'root verb', which might get lost in the process.
Russiab is special because of the two sets of verbs. In other languages with aspect it is integrated in the conjugation of each verb (often with compound forms instead of simple forms, as in English). So here the mechanism is more accidental and only based on the a tendency to loose a simple verb among all its more precise offspring. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| aslan Diglot Newbie Turkey Joined 6233 days ago 6 posts - 7 votes Speaks: Turkish*, English Studies: Italian | Message 14 of 20 24 November 2007 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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Turkish examples:
ya-k-mak = set something on fire ya-n-mak = to be on fire But no ya-mak çıl-dır-mak = to go mad çıl-gın = mad But no çıl-mak inci-t-mek = to hurt inci-n-mek = to get hurt But no inci-mek etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Eafonte Triglot Groupie Brazil Joined 6236 days ago 59 posts - 63 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, English Studies: Russian | Message 15 of 20 24 November 2007 at 10:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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In portuguese we have: aduzir, abduzir, deduzir, conduzir, reduzir, induzir, seduzir, traduzir, produzir, but there isn't a verb duzir*
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| agimcomas Pentaglot Groupie Canada Joined 6459 days ago 69 posts - 77 votes Speaks: Spanish*, French, English, Portuguese, German Studies: Mandarin, Korean | Message 16 of 20 28 December 2007 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm not sure about the idea of "ghost verbs". French "admettre, soumettre, remettre" seem to be related to the existent verb "mettre". Now, the "duce" in english "reduce, deduce" etc. seems to be just a verb ending form, a suffix, not a verb on its own.
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