|
 |
Number of languages | ||
Tags: Number of Languages | Polyglot | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7379 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes  12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 1 of 21 26 March 2005 at 12:24am | IP Logged |
|
When discussing the life of any polyglot, a recurring question is that of 'how many'. How many languages did he speak?
This question is always difficult to answer, since any person who studies more than a dozen languages is bound to speak some better than others, be able to read certain languages but not speak them, understand others but not write them, etc... Russell, in his masterful book about Mezzofanti, did quite a job of setting up an objective definition of what he considered a language spoken by Mezzofanti and what standards of proof he would accept to include it in the list. I just want to attract the attention of readers of this forum that you cannot quote a single figure for 'How many languages did he speak?'. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ElComadreja Senior Member Philippines bibletranslatio Joined 7241 days ago 683 posts - 757 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew, Cebuano, French, Tagalog | Message 2 of 21 26 March 2005 at 3:58pm | IP Logged |
|
Well, if someone knows hello in 40 languages, then by the grammar rules of English you could say 'he can speak in 40 different languages'. :p Edited by administrator on 27 March 2005 at 12:23am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7259 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 3 of 21 29 March 2005 at 2:15am | IP Logged |
|
Administrator, this is one of the most important points to be made in discussing polyglottery. When anyone asks me how many languages I can know, all I can do is respond with two questions: What do you mean by a language? And what do you mean by to know a language? Unless there is clear agreement on these (which there isn't and never will be), talking about numbers is inherently vague and ambiguous.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7379 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 21 29 March 2005 at 4:06am | IP Logged |
|
I would volunteer for the purpose of this forum that we accept as a 'language' any national or official language, and that we use the word 'dialect' for non-national languages such as the various French and Italian dialects.
Catalan having reached a greater political recognition could be considered as either one. To avoid empty discussions it would be better to give the list of languages spoken by a polyglot to a high order, then those he can translate from. As for the standard of speaking, I have a detailed account for Mezzofanti but we could probably get the same straight from the horse's mouth by interviewing living polyglot. I would love to start with Prof. Arguelles whenever he feels like it! I think it will be encouraging for other polyglots to share information about their linguistic skills if we begin with ourselves. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7259 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 5 of 21 29 March 2005 at 11:14am | IP Logged |
|
With all due respect, administrator, I simply cannot accept the equation "national recognition = language, lack of national recognition = dialect." This is utterly out of accord with the historical / literary development of "languages."
While admitting that this is an insoluable situation, to state that knowledge of a distinctive speech form is lesser because it is of a "dialect" than if it were a "language" is simply inaccurate. National boundaries are too instable for this to be an accurate gauge. By your criteria, the list of languages made in Europe fifteen or twenty years ago would be quite different from the list made today. No, a "language" is a speech form that has a separate historical development and a speparate literary tradition, especially if manifested in a separate language academy, regardless of political status. With respect to the specific example that you gave, Catalan is a language, not a dialect of Spanish, with no ifs ands or buts about it. Likewise, Occitan is by no measure a dialect of French, but an untterly distinct and different language. Romanche, on the other hand, despite Swiss governmental recognition as a fourth national language for the past 60 years, is merely a dialect of Italian. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7379 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 21 29 March 2005 at 11:45am | IP Logged |
|
Well, then that's settled.
Now back to the question I was trying to address, what would you say should constitute a language when discussing how many a polyglot speaks? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Billy Newbie Joined 7184 days ago 15 posts - 15 votes | Message 7 of 21 29 March 2005 at 12:03pm | IP Logged |
|
I'd have thought it would be simpler than it's being made out here. If you can say something two different ways, one of which is recognised as one language, the other as another language, it's two languages. It sounds like I'm just repeating what you're saying but I can have a conversation in French then have the same conversation in English, and it's recognised as different languages. If an American person had the same English conversation it would sound completely different but it'd still be English, using our words and structure and grammar rules.
I suppose the test is "Would the stupidest person speaking [language 1] understand me if I spoke like this?" Obviously Germans who are used to Dutch dialect can understand them very well but there are Germans who can't understand them simply because Dutch sounds are foreign to German ears. So Dutch and German are separate. I don't know about Catalan and Spanish but I assume there are Spaniards who don't speak Catalan. If not maybe it's safe to say all Spaniards are at least bilingual as long as you can justify Catalan being a different language. If you're brought up trained to speak it and it's not Spanish it must be something different. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7379 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 21 29 March 2005 at 12:26pm | IP Logged |
|
My my, I have started the feared religious war about language-versus-dialect it seems. Before we venture further in opening Pandora's box I'd like to ask for guns to be checked in at the entrance of the saloon. I give my vote to Ardaschir who had studied these things more than I did, and leave you guys decide.
1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
