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Another dreaded "r" question | ||
Tags: Phonetics | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4672 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes  Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 9 of 15 28 July 2012 at 3:52am | IP Logged | ||
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In German, the alveolar R is still used in at least 3 regions of Germany by both young and old:
1) Bavarian Swabia (capital city Augsburg) 2) Upper Palatinate (capital city Regensburg) 3) Upper Franconia The alveolar R speaker in Bundestag: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7DTsIvrRs4 In Munich, young people seem to use the uvular R these days (although some of them use the alveolar and the uvular R interchangeably, with uvular R used in more formal situations) Edited by Medulin on 28 July 2012 at 4:07am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5060 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 10 of 15 28 July 2012 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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Did Hitler pronounce the alveolar trill on purpose or it was his accent?
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| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4525 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 11 of 15 28 July 2012 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | ||
both He was from Braunau am Inn, people there still have a trill in their dialect. But he also chose his style of language on purpose. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4953 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 12 of 15 28 July 2012 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, I have been working on this today and I'm being humbled by this sound :)
I seem to be able to make a very fast vibrating "r" where I feel the back of my tongue vibrate and touch the uvula, and this feels different from the regular fricative I do for French sounds. I know because I have of course contrasted them... as I said yesterday, the uvular fricative just feels like it happens ever so slightly more forward, that's probably because one is deliberately keeping the tongue from touching the uvula further back. The thing is, listening to a few recordings of the uvular "r", my "trill" is a lot more rapid, whereas the three examples of the uvular r I've heard the trill (vibration) is slower, like you can almost feel the person's uvula gargling and not just vibrating really fast like mine. That's what I'm having no success in replicating now. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4832 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 13 of 15 28 July 2012 at 9:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've been listening to a lot of audiobooks recorded by (the late) Gert Westphal lately.
His "r"s are very distinctive. Would anyone who knows his work like to describe them in the terms being used above? I'm not very au fait with technical linguistic terms, to be honest, so I wouldn't like to define what he does myself - it doesn't sound much like the average modern German though. According to Wikipedia he was born in Dresden, but moved around quite a bit after WW2. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4832 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 14 of 15 28 July 2012 at 9:52pm | IP Logged | ||
Do you happen to know from where that speaker in the Youtube clip you posted comes from? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4953 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 15 of 15 29 July 2012 at 2:59am | IP Logged | ||
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(update... not that anyone should care hahaha).
I think I made major progress this afternoon. I can make a much cleaner trill with the back of my throat, noticeably better than even this morning. My ear can now clearly diferenciate between saying "PaRis" wihe the fricative I used in my French pronounciation (which sounds like a light throat clearing), with "PaRis" as a (hopefully) uvular, which feels like my throat (uvula) is ringing. The trill appears to me more clear and less raspy as well, before now all my efforts were muddled with "exhaling" interference (like an /h/ sound). It is still umpredictable and 50% chance my trill break down, but I think I've made a major step forward. I think it is good that I master this sound as none of my languages have true uvulars (certainly not my native tongues), so they are certainly a challenge. I think I'm close to knowing what the proper placement and breathing is... I think the rest will come with time. This may sound crazy, but I think that since the back of my tongue and certainly my uvula have never really been used in speech, they probably are "weak". By that I mean that both are muscles, and if you don't use your muscles they don't operate as well. I think with practive my uvula will "firm" up a bit and tha will bring me to make an even better uvular trill. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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