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Word order French vs Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4953 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 1 of 3 07 August 2012 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi, good to see HTLAL fighting the good fight! Kudos and thanks to those selfless people that make the site run for the rest of us.
I was reading a French news article just now. This is typical word order with "aucun": "Selon les enquêteurs, aucun soupçon ne pèse sur le père des trois enfants." I have never seen any other word other with "aucun...ne", and now that I remember my basic-intermediate french textbook introduced the construction as such in the indefinite pronouns section. Yet in Spanish it seems there are two possibilities: "Según los investigadores, no pesa (ninguna) sospecha (alguna) contra el padre de los tres niños." (the parenthesis indicate the placement of those words, at least to my native ear. Of course only one of them is necessary). Yet, you could also say: "Según los investigadores, ninguna sospecha pesa contra el padre de los tres niños." Notice how here however, "no" dissapears. The 2nd example is one I have heard, but it seems more colloquial and not something that would be used in proper newscasts, but I could be wrong. So my two questions are simple: is the 2nd Spanish example accepted grammar or is it seen as deviated? And does French allow for any other word other to the example provided in that language? I've never heard of any. This is another example of how learnin another language makes you think and question how your native languages work, or even if you are making grammatical mistakes previously dissembled by use! (already had that happen with German "Keiner von", made me realize the use of "de" in Spanish when a negative totality is stated) Edited by outcast on 07 August 2012 at 4:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5536 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 3 07 August 2012 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | ||
Sadly, I can't read your Spanish example, but here's what's going on in French: "aucun soupçon": Here, "aucun" modifies the noun, and you'd translate it as "no". "ne pese": Since we've used "aucun" in the sentence, we need to put "ne" in front of the verb. Once upon a time, "ne" used to be the actual negation, but it has long since been absorbed into a verb prefix, and "aucun" is now the real negation. Clitic pronouns go between "ne" and the verb, but nothing else is allowed there (unless the verb is in the infinitive, which gets slightly more complicated). Of course, "aucun" may move anywhere the noun does: Je n'ai aucune idée. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Heriotza Groupie Dominican Republic Joined 4684 days ago 48 posts - 71 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 3 of 3 09 August 2012 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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The Spanish sentence "Según los investigadores, ninguna sospecha pesa contra el padre de los tres niños" is perfectly correct and formal.
Edited by Heriotza on 09 August 2012 at 7:11pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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