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Simplified English Pronunciation | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4711 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 25 of 32 16 September 2013 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
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If you have to, use t/d - it's the Irish sound.
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| Via Diva Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation last.fm/user/viadivaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4238 days ago 1109 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German, Italian, French, Swedish, Esperanto, Czech, Greek | Message 26 of 32 16 September 2013 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
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tarvos, I would've been glad to do it, but if teacher herself saying that we're better to use s/z... Of course, there will be three people during exam, but our teacher will be there amongst them. And she's always saying that everybody adore pronunciation of her students, that they're the best in reading... I'm afraid to let her down with my tricky pronunciation, and when I got some hope to make it sound better, she suggest the other way.
I even know how that'll end: I will be practicing original th during all New Year winter holidays. Nearly two weeks with th and I'll have an excuse to fail physical and analytical chemistry exams :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4626 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 27 of 32 16 September 2013 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I've heard peope say that in RP, door and poor sound the same. In Scottish English, they have completely
different vowel sounds. I would pronounce poor the same as lose. Maybe some aspects of RP are actually already simplified? At the end of the day, it's just an arbitrary choice of some Victorian professor to adopt one variety as standard. The southern English even have a soft consonant thing going on with lure, which they voice as l-yure. With me it comes out sounding the same as poor. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| LaughingChimp Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4703 days ago 346 posts - 594 votes Speaks: Czech* | Message 28 of 32 16 September 2013 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
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That is true. Horse/hoarse also sound the same and there is a tendency to merge peer/pear and tower/tire.
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| Richard Burton Newbie Spain Joined 4336 days ago 34 posts - 64 votes Speaks: Ancient Greek* | Message 29 of 32 14 October 2013 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
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There is absolutely no chance to change the phonological system of a language by sort of a popular initiative. Languages have a phonological system; actually, in my opinion, are close to be a phonological system, I mean, what system they use is probably the most defining feature of what they are. It is not like they are there, and then a phonological system can be decided for them.
I admit though they can be influenced by language planning decisions and, particularly, the writing system, but only partially and over long stretches of time. The idea of completely refurbishing the system by a conscious collective decision (supposing that would be possible in the first place) is daft I am sorry :) But good try. A lot of foreign learners would be eternally grateful. The indigestibility of the English phonological system, in any incarnation -useless to try to find a better version-, has and will continue to harm millions of people. Funny enough, those few of us savvy on phonology, coming from the Germanic family, or maybe just talented, who can reproduce it well, become as attached to it as native speakers, very much as in the case of the chaotic writing system. English is a disgrace really. Should be banned!!! :) A different issue would be: a mass of users as second or foreign language are so numerous, and fail to reproduce the original phonological system so consistently, that they bring to life a new variety of English; this is official and they call it Indian, etc English. Then some could come and say, let this be the model for English as a foreign language. But everybody consistently choose to look to the original core of speakers, unwilling to create a fundamental gap with the very source whence the force of the language emanates. A better solution would be having a statistically more average phon. system for the language used as lingua franca, in other words, another language, but this was a case of historical development or whatever and no way to revert it voluntarily by now. It is English and it has a statistically not too common phonological system (more in the case of vowels and rythm, consonants is not too bad). Humanity sucks, what can anyone do. Patience. Thank you for the "Irish th", it is the first time in my life that I hear explicitly talking about it, while I observed it on my own, first time, many years ago, when listening to the beautiful song by Cranberries "Twenty One", where I clearly heard "I dont TTTink is going to happen anymore you took my TToughts from me..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKjOQzwzEIM after that, the most surprising thing in the whole Anglosphere for me is a terribly closed /e:/ that in my opinion New Zealanders use, sounds exactly for my like German extremely closed /e:/, in "bed", "head", etc, sounds almost like some "beed", "heed"...but you get used to these speakers quickly. The cup sound mentioned above really should not be difficult if clearly explained: is just a open o with labialization withdrawn, it is very easy to relax the lips in a opened o. It is a very comfortable and natural sound, statistically not too rare. No need to hate it :) Edited by Richard Burton on 14 October 2013 at 2:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4711 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 30 of 32 14 October 2013 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
Your teacher is wrong. You either pronounce /th/ properly, or you use a variant which is accepted in some sub-form (in this case Hiberno-English). I wouldn't accept a substitute if (more like when) I taught English either. T/d seems to be most common in the Netherlands, but I have heard f/v too and sometimes s/z. Edited by tarvos on 14 October 2013 at 2:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| schoenewaelder Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5564 days ago 759 posts - 1197 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 31 of 32 15 October 2013 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
Probably true, but I wasn't suggesting the natives should change their pronunciation, just that there are probably simpler, standard ways to pronounce certain things, that would still be clearly understandable by the natives, and hopefully even sound quite neutral
It is a very relaxed sound, but the tongue is further forward than for "o". I suspect a delabalised "o" could end up sounding a bit "a"-ish. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| HMS Senior Member England Joined 5111 days ago 143 posts - 256 votes Speaks: English* | Message 32 of 32 17 October 2013 at 6:37am | IP Logged | |||||
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I think RP English should be placed in the same category as MSA Arabic.
Except RP is now archaic. Nobody speaks like that and if they did they would get funny looks. Easily understood though. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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