|
 |
Latin in Hungary | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6768 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 1 of 14 13 October 2007 at 7:04am | IP Logged | |||||
|
I caught a few posts of an interesting discussion at sci.lang about the use of Latin in the Austro-Hungarian empire, and in Hungary in particular. Apparently while the upper classes mostly spoke German, Latin was the official language of the Kingdom of Hungary from Medieval times until 1867, when it switched to Hungarian — a dying language at the time.
Interestingly, Latin was a general language of communication across much of the Empire, and it was the main language used in the Hungarian diet. Apparently a 19th century peasant would greet his landlord saying "Bonum matutinum, domine." 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6272 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 2 of 14 13 October 2007 at 8:27am | IP Logged | |||||
|
Correspondence between a couple of educated Hungarians in the 1540s contains an anecdote that was apparently a source for Shakespeare's Measure For Measure, but the letter is in Latin, not Hungarian.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6768 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 3 of 14 14 October 2007 at 2:14am | IP Logged | |||||
|
Interesting, William. I wonder if any Hungarians of that time spoke it natively, and what sort of Latin it was.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6272 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 4 of 14 14 October 2007 at 7:30am | IP Logged | |||||
Educated Europeans of the period were often so familiar with Latin that it pushed their native vernacular into the background. For example, the native language of Erasmus was a Dutch dialect, but I believe in one of his letters (in Latin, of course) he remarks that he is so familiar with Latin that he has serious trouble writing in Dutch. He spent much of the time away from Dutch-speaking territory and that may have accelerated the process of language loss, though I don't suppose he ever completely forgot Dutch. Writing a language is a more deliberate activity than speaking it, and if he had trouble writing in it I suspect it was because he had trouble thinking in it and had lost a lot of vocabulary. Hungarian was a low-prestige language for hundreds of years and hardly written down, though spoken of course. Educated Hungarians may well have spoken Latin natively although they may also have used German. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| quendidil Diglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 6312 days ago 126 posts - 142 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: Japanese | Message 5 of 14 17 October 2007 at 10:16am | IP Logged | |||||
I wonder how they taught Latin back then to such a high level of fluency if it was no particular race's first language. There are some old textbooks available around the net that quite clearly show they weren't using the grammar-translation method, some in fact were using what is now called the Natural Approach and the Direct Method. I also heard that the first diplomatic exchange between China and the West (Russia in this case) was done in Latin. If only French hadn't usurped Latin's position as Europe's diplomatic language. Latin would have never become a "dead" tongue and we could all use a neutral tongue to communicate. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cisa Super Polyglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6419 days ago 312 posts - 309 votes 2 sounds Speaks: Hungarian*, Slovak, FrenchC1, EnglishC2, Mandarin, SpanishB2, RussianB2, GermanB2, Korean, Czech, Latin Studies: Italian, Cantonese, Japanese, Portuguese, Polish, Hindi, Mongolian, Tibetan, Kazakh, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew | Message 6 of 14 05 November 2007 at 9:51am | IP Logged | |||||
|
Hi guys,
well, yes, Latin was an official language in the Habsburg empire at that time and it is true that some people used Latin as the lingua franca of that time and spoke it fluently. Of course, they were mostly church people and scientists or officers. I would not call Hungarian a dying language of that time!!! (No nacionalism or just because I´m a native speaker!!) It had a low prestige though and it suffered a lot of foreign influence, thanks to all-time conquers of that poor country :P, and did not have a such a high literacy rate like English or French, but since the Renaissance age, literature had a really lively period, mostly in poetry. Novels came in the 1700s and the age of neologism was under the reign of Maria Theresa and Joseph II, when several old and too long words were ´deleted´ from vocabulary and some enuthiastic intellectuals invented new words. Actually, it is a really funny period, with lots of ´word battles´ and now funny-sounding words. Have a nice day, Idril 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| LilleOSC Senior Member United States lille.theoffside.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6691 days ago 545 posts - 546 votes 4 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 7 of 14 05 November 2007 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's a good question. I never understood that either. Especially, since it was such a difficult language and it was spoken in such a wide area. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6272 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 8 of 14 07 November 2007 at 10:17am | IP Logged | |||||
|
It would be interesting to know how good (or bad) the Latin was at that period, not just in Hungary. Its case system is not easy to learn, and quite a few people commented disparagingly on the Latin of others. Before he broke with Rome, Luther referred to German monks and friars "who know no grammar". My impression is a lot of Latin used was inaccurate, broken and influenced by the speaker's vernacular, even if he or she would never dream of writing or reading in the native language.
1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
