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Renaturalization of loan words | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7376 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes  12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 1 of 24 11 August 2005 at 6:58am | IP Logged | ||
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I know that several languages went trough a phase of linguistic chauvinism and got rid of many loanwords by coining new, home made words. Finnish replaced its Swedish words and personal names in the 1920's.
In France I found a rather soft example of a similar idea. The web uses a lot of 'FAQ' (Frequently Asked Questions). You find often on French websites a neat way of keeping the acronym but making it officially french : 'Foire aux questions' (Questions fair). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Giordano Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 7174 days ago 213 posts - 218 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Cantonese, Greek | Message 2 of 24 11 August 2005 at 9:39am | IP Logged | ||
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Such tampering with the natural course of language is a bit ridiculous. I mean, should 'RSVP' in English be made to mean "Reserve Seat Very Promptly" or some other such nonsense?
This kind of idiocy happened in Quebec too. We don't have "le parking", as they do in France, but "Le Stationnement" (meanwhile, we "park" the car, while in France they "stationnent" theirs). Our stop signs don't say STOP, they say ARRETE, and all our traffic signs are in French as well. This, of course, is complete phallacy given that we are surrounded by 330 million monolingual Anglophones, all of whom can drive here. How is a French sign saying 'no right turn on red' supposed to help Americans who can't read French? It doesn't. Ugh. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| morprussell Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7163 days ago 272 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 3 of 24 11 August 2005 at 10:58am | IP Logged | ||
... Or other Canadians who can't read French. I don't expect other governments to accommodate Americans with their street signs, but it would seem like a good idea to accommodate the other English speakers which make up the majority of the country... but then they want to ensure the preservation of French. Edited by morprussell on 11 August 2005 at 10:59am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Giordano Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 7174 days ago 213 posts - 218 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Cantonese, Greek | Message 4 of 24 11 August 2005 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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Morprussell, you are right also. Most Canadians outside of Quebec know as little French as Americans do. However, we get many more American tourists than Canadian ones (plus, Toronto, at six hours away, is about as far as Boston and almost as far as New York).
In terms of expecting Quebec to accomodate Americans (and other Canadians), it should be expected that such a courtesy would be extended to tourists. I know that Plattsburg, which is frequented by (and largely depends on) Montreal tourists has bilingual traffic signs. It is really embarrasing that a small city in Upstate New York with no local French speakers would have French signs, but Quebec, with it's over half a million anglophones (Montreal specifically has 400.000-500.000), and in a largely anglophone country and continent, has no English signs. It really hurts the image of the Quebec Nationalist (less extreme than separatist) movement to reduce the debate to such petty terms. As for the topic of this thread, I know that many French people (from France) and other Europeans who come here and meet real Separatists/Nationalists find the whole thing incredibly petty and quite ridiculous. These people have STOP signs, not ARRETE signs, as we do. I mean, come on... I don't think that such "purism" is the way to go. A back-and-forth exchange of knowledge, culture, and yes, language, must happen between societies. It has always been so and will continue to be so, no matter what the OLF ("Office de la Langue Française") has to say. You see, even in Quebec, English has made its mark, just in different ways. Quebecers rejected "le parking" as an anglicism but have no qualms about "parking" leurs autos. Considering the sheer amount of French in English, a small bit of English in French won't hurt anyone. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bart Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 7160 days ago 155 posts - 159 votes Speaks: Dutch*, French, English Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese, Swedish | Message 5 of 24 11 August 2005 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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What a coincidence that you brought up the traffic signs in Quebec issue! I have 2 nephews who's father is Flemish (my mother's brother) and who's mother is Walloon (not sure if that's correct in English, but anyway; she speaks French). Those fully bilingual nephews of mine visited us just yesterday after having been on a vacation in Canada for the past 2 weeks. And even they, 2 French speaking boys aged 10 and 12, were shocked that in Quebec the traffic signs said ARRETE instead of STOP, like the rest of the world.
I can understand that they want to preserve their Francophone heritage, but this is just ridiculous. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| morprussell Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7163 days ago 272 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 6 of 24 11 August 2005 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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I was supprised to find stop signs that said "stop" in Spain. In Mexico they say "alto" and I figured it would be the same in other Spanish speaking countries.
Which countries use "stop" for their stop signs? Maybe the better question is , which countries don't use "stop"? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7376 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 24 12 August 2005 at 12:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Gentlemen, please let us not discuss the merits of Quebec nationalism. I am sure a case could be made for and against it, but here is not the venue.
I am wondering if there are other cases of words that are clearly foreign but have been sort of reclaimed by the language, such as 'FAQ', keeping the original shell. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Giordano Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 7174 days ago 213 posts - 218 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Cantonese, Greek | Message 8 of 24 12 August 2005 at 10:17am | IP Logged | ||
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No one is discussing Quebec Nationalism. Obviously, people should have a right to their culture. They are simple discussing how in Quebec, French is often used much more than elsewhere (and how, with millions of unilingual English-speakers driving around, it may not be the best idea). The topic is related to the thread because the great use of French is related to the "booting out" of loan words you posted about. This happens in Quebec much more often than in France, and (unfortunately) it is intertwined with the Nationalist movement.
Would words that have been made to sound like native words but in fact aren't (such as coffee, garage, líder) also fall into the categry of "renaturalized" words? Edited by Giordano on 12 August 2005 at 11:36am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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