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Renaturalization of loan words | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| epingchris Triglot Senior Member Taiwan shih-chuan.blog.ntu. Joined 7028 days ago 273 posts - 284 votes  5 sounds Studies: Taiwanese, Mandarin*, English, FrenchB2 Studies: Japanese, German, Turkish | Message 17 of 24 08 September 2005 at 8:22am | IP Logged | ||
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Better so, I think.
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 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6894 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 18 of 24 25 January 2006 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | ||
I can't resist nitpicking a little here, since Finnish certainy didn't replace all its Swedish words and names, though it is true that it went through a stage where there were such tendencies, and some words were changed and some people chose to change their names as well. There are still quite a few Swedish loan-words and people with Swedish names around, myself included (though it has been a while since I lived there) ;o) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Skandinav Hexaglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 6887 days ago 139 posts - 145 votes Speaks: Danish*, English, German, Russian, Swedish, Norwegian | Message 19 of 24 25 January 2006 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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I believe it is both fair and understandable to "renaturalize" loan words. First, when English, German and so on adopted French, Latin or even Greek words such thing as nationalism and patriotism did not exist. At least not in the mass public. People weren't even citizens at the time. Second, today very few words are adopted by English, so from the perspective or lens of Anglo-Saxonism it is difficult to say much about this topic. I myself have been witnessing a great deal of linguistic as well as cultural influence from (US) English, and to be honest I don't care much for it. Scandinavians are so damn Anglophile that no policies are made in order to stop this nasty habit; most terminology isn't translated. The Norwegians, however, have found a good balance I think. They - I think Iceland has the same policy - translate or rewrite the words.
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| Giordano Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 7174 days ago 213 posts - 218 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Cantonese, Greek | Message 20 of 24 25 January 2006 at 8:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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In English I find it's more common that one would think that people use foreign words that aren't even accepted in English... they just take a word from another language. I can't think of any specific examples, unfortunately.
As far as "most terminolgy not being translated", much English vocabulary is untranslated (or semi-translated, in the case of French words, since both languages are quite similar) in fields such as cooking for example. The English are not known for their fine cuisine, and so when cooking you will find yourself unwittingly using French and Italian and other loan words. Why would any other language be any different? In fact it is tradition that menus at British royal functions are written in French. You might say that cooking and other fields such as science are not at all the same, but I ask you why shouldn't they use English words? There was a time when almost all educated Russians spoke French or at least used French words in everyday speech. Russian is still alive and kicking. British rulers for centuries spoke French. Latin was once the only language for both Science and Religion (Christianity at least) in Europe. Yet, other languages survived. Remember also that, eventually things will change. Languages will create new words or incorporate the English words when they get bored with English or as English looses its dominance, or both. You have to ask why the French say "shopping", "parking", and "week-end" when they have "magazinage", "stationnement", and "fin de semaine". Why English speakers will say "elite", "bourgeoisie", and "cafe" and when we have "aristocracy", "middle class", and "coffehouse"? It's just chic. I mean trendy. Edited by Giordano on 25 January 2006 at 8:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Skandinav Hexaglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 6887 days ago 139 posts - 145 votes Speaks: Danish*, English, German, Russian, Swedish, Norwegian | Message 21 of 24 26 January 2006 at 5:01am | IP Logged | ||
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It is true that English adopted many words from French, and Russian adopted many words from French and German; but I was rather targeting the practice of just adopting words for the sake of adoption. I think in Scandinavia this is a very common practice, and to be honest, I don't like the sound of it. I see no reason why words like "shopping" or "gossip" (often written gozzip in order to keep up with MTVnia) are adopted.
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| Lugubert Heptaglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6867 days ago 186 posts - 235 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Danish, Norwegian, EnglishC2, German, Dutch, French Studies: Mandarin, Hindi | Message 22 of 24 04 June 2006 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sweden uses STOP signs, despite our spelling stopp.
My favourite example of a word "loan" that really was returned is the Scandinavian kaka 'cookie' that was exported to England, and re-exported in the plural 'cakes' to give the Swedish kex, now meaning only (Brit.) biscuit, (Am.) crackers. Then there's the Swedish woman's name Helga 'the hallowed one', exported to Russia and returned and now used in parallel as Olga. Another example, perhaps off-topic but in the same vein, is what originally was Latin ius 'juice, broth'. Early on, we imported the French jus and transcribed it into Swedish (in ca. 1755) as sky, still meaning meat juice in cooking. (The sk- is slightly similar to 'sh' in 'she', but I know of no other language having the same sound. Google 'hooktop heng', but don't believe any sound files.) More recently, we imported the English version juice, now recognized as a Swedish word, despite efforts to replace it by a more indigenous spelling jos. (Yes, the 'o' is IPA [u:] - and the 'j' is IPA [j], what Anglophones would hear as 'y'.) This word is mainly used for fruit and vegetable juices, an so we have two different imported versions of the one original word. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| victor Tetraglot Moderator United States Joined 7318 days ago 1098 posts - 1056 votes 6 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, FrenchC1, Mandarin Studies: Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 23 of 24 04 June 2006 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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Apparently, the European Union has standardized all stop signs to say "STOP". A lot of French tourists are surprised when they see unilingual French "arręt" stop signs all across Quebec.
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| sayariza Triglot Groupie Indonesia Joined 6763 days ago 42 posts - 54 votes Speaks: Malay, Indonesian*, DutchC1 Studies: EnglishC2 | Message 24 of 24 09 June 2006 at 11:29am | IP Logged | ||
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is that ever happened accidents because that unique stop sign?
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