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French - Past Historic

  Tags: Morphology | French
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12 messages over 2 pages: 1
Arekkusu
Hexaglot
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Canada
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Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
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 Message 9 of 12
10 May 2012 at 3:46pm | IP Logged 
Ogrim wrote:
[QUOTE=mizunooto]
As regards the subjunctive, in spoken French you do use the present and perfect subjunctive ("que je fasse", "qu'il ait terminé") but you will never hear the imperfect subjunctive "que j'aimasse" from aimer, for example. However, in formal writing it may still appear.

And that's even more rare than passé simple. By a huge margin too.
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emk
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 Message 10 of 12
10 May 2012 at 5:30pm | IP Logged 
The passé simple is everywhere in books, even modern pulp thrillers that
Americans would read on the beach. If you want to be read random works of modern
fiction, you'll absolutely need to recognize and understand it. Fortunately, you really
only need two dozen irregular stems and two sets of regular endings, and you only need
to know the third person unless you're reading Le Petit Prince.

I've never heard it used in day-to-day speech, but I found it once in Tin Tin (when a
character is telling a story about something that happened 20 years before). And if you
listen really carefully to episode 2 of the first season of Buffy, you'll hear Giles
the librarian say (transcript quoted from
here):

Quote:
GILES : Le monde fut créé bien au-delà de ce que nous imaginons. Et,
contrairement à la croyance populaire, ce n’était pas un lieu paradisiaque. Pendant
fort longtemps, les démons occupèrent la Terre, ils en firent leur
royaume, leur… leur Enfer. Mais au fil du temps, ils perdirent leur prérogative
; l’univers fut remodelé pour les mortels et ils furent chassés par
l’Homme. Et de leur monde, il ne subsiste que des vestiges, certains rituels magiques,
certaines créatures…


But he's consciously telling a story here, trying to evoke the ancient past in a
mythological style.

Basically, the passé simple is used to narrate stories. When the time comes to
go ahead and read real fiction—even modern fiction—just go ahead and learn it. You'll
need a few hours, and then you'll have a much wider choice of books.
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FELlX
Diglot
Groupie
France
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94 posts - 149 votes 
Speaks: French*, English

 
 Message 11 of 12
10 May 2012 at 5:52pm | IP Logged 
Ogrim wrote:

As regards the subjunctive, in spoken French you do use the present and perfect subjunctive ("que je fasse", "qu'il ait terminé") but you will never hear the imperfect subjunctive "que j'aimasse" from aimer, for example. However, in formal writing it may still appear.

I have never heard or read imperfect subjunctive out of the context of a joke. Passé simple is more common, but only written. Unless you plan to read French literature, or are aiming for an advanced level of French, you can skip over it.

Edited by FELlX on 10 May 2012 at 5:57pm

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garyb
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 Message 12 of 12
11 May 2012 at 11:05am | IP Logged 
I've never actually spent time studying the passé simple or the imperfect subjunctive,
but after reading Le Petit Prince I recognise and understand them quite easily. They seem
strange at first but you get the hang of them quickly. I doubt I could produce them
easily apart from the most common and regular ones though, but it's not like I'll ever
need to so I see no reason to spend time learning them when I could spend that time
learning useful things.

Interestingly I knew an Algerian guy a while ago who, when saying goodbye after meeting
somebody, would always say "ce fut un plaisir".


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