[Mandarin] Why learners need good tones? (Questions About Your Target Languages) Language Learning Forum

[Mandarin] Why learners need good tones?
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Takato
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Message 1 of 14

17 June 2012 at 3:43pm | IP Logged

Why do I need to pronounce the tones somewhat perfectly? Even Cantonese people can't pronounce them too well. Why do I have to speak better Mandarin than Cantonese people? Also... why's it better to know 1000 words with freaking well pronunciation of tones than knowing 1500 words with about half of them well pronounced regarding tones?

Edited by Takato on 17 June 2012 at 4:15pm
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Chung
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Message 2 of 14

17 June 2012 at 4:40pm | IP Logged

This article may be useful with the relevant sub-section being:

http://eastasiastudent.net/china/putonghua/tones/ wrote:

Common questions about tones in Mandarin

How important are tones?

In short: very important. You really need to start studying them immediately, and continue to study them, well, forever. They’re an essential part of Mandarin pronunciation, just as important as vowels and consonants.

I often find a comparison of tones and vowels quite useful. If a non-native speaker of English gets their vowel sounds wrong, quite a lot of the time you can still tell what they’re talking about. But sometimes you just have no idea, even if the error is small.

I think this is fairly similar to the tones situation with Mandarin. It’s very obvious when you get them wrong, but people can often still understand what you’re saying. Just as frequently, though, incorrect tones will totally confuse your listener!

All in all, tones can’t be ignored. You really do have to learn them properly.

What about tone of voice?

People often wonder how tone of voice works in a language with tones, and this is often a big difficulty for foreigners studying Chinese. Using the intonation of our own languages can interfere with the tones of Mandarin.

The most common example of this is foreigners accidentally slipping in a second or third tone at the end of a question. This famously converts 请问 (qǐngwèn), meaning “excuse me”, into 请吻 (qǐng wěn), meaning “please kiss”.

Mandarin does of course use tone of voice as much as any other language. Tone of voice actually varies a lot between any two languages, regardless of tones. Compare the intonation of French and English, neither of which have tones. Mandarin tone of voice also has its own distinct style, which allows for expressive pitch including the use of tones.

You can guess what I’m going to recommend for mastering this. Just listen to native speakers as much as possible, and the way tone of voice combines with tones will start to become natural.

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eggcluck
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Message 3 of 14

17 June 2012 at 4:42pm | IP Logged

Speaking as a Non Chinese Guy living in China,

The Chinese that are used to speaking to foriegners will usually be able to deal with tone mistakes, wheras those that are not, will sturggle far more and it may be tiring for them.

Time and time again I have cleared up a misunderstanding by re-saying the same sentence but with more care to the tones. Cantonese people are part of China and these people are also everywhere in all parts are China, so I dare say majority of mainlanders are used to them. Lets also not forget that majority of Mandarin speakers are not native speakers per say, of course they have had a significant leg up compared to use westerners with the language. Accents vary but, that early childhood start has resulted in flawless grammar and tones. Even 5 year olds are pretty damn good at it. I have not come across anything younger than five that knows anything than their local lingo however.

So if they can learn to such a high standard by age 5, we should be able to too! You dont want to be outshone forever by a 4 year old do you?

I find that article contradictory, it says intonation of our own languages can cause issues and then says our languages have no tone ^^. After studying Madarin I have come to realease that English does make a small use of tones in various guises.

Edited by eggcluck on 17 June 2012 at 4:45pm
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tibbles
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Message 4 of 14

18 June 2012 at 7:59am | IP Logged

Takato wrote:

Even Cantonese people can't pronounce them too well.

However, even if you think Cantonese get the Mandarin tones somewhat wrong, the fact is that Western learners get the tones even more wrong.

And to turn the tables, imagine someone speaking English with a flat tone and equal stress on all words and syllables. That would simply not sound right and probably take a bit of work to comprehend. So that's what a Mandarin speaker is up against when s/he hears some phrase with sloppily applied tones.
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jeff_lindqvist
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Message 5 of 14

18 June 2012 at 10:06am | IP Logged

Takato wrote:

Why do I need to pronounce the tones somewhat perfectly?

Short answer: Because you won't sound Chinese unless you sound Chinese.

Slightly longer answer: Tones are such an important part of the overall sound of the language. Any syllable said with the wrong tone means something else.
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hrhenry
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Message 6 of 14

18 June 2012 at 2:17pm | IP Logged

jeff_lindqvist wrote:

Slightly longer answer: Tones are such an important part of the overall sound of the
language. Any syllable said with the wrong tone means something else.

As a non-Chinese speaker, I can definitely see your point but...

The little bit of experience I have with tone accents makes me wonder if context can't
help at least a little bit in sorting out some confusion. I can't imagine a conversation
where each tone is so disconnected that context wouldn't help.

R.
==
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Snowflake
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Message 7 of 14

18 June 2012 at 5:36pm | IP Logged

hrhenry wrote:

I can't imagine a conversation where each tone is so disconnected that context wouldn't help.

I can...where you inadvertently say something that is extremely offensive. Or the word that you wish to use and what was actually said both make sense in the context. These are not hypothetical examples as they have happened to me.

Edited by Snowflake on 18 June 2012 at 5:49pm
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LaughingChimp
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Message 8 of 14

18 June 2012 at 5:54pm | IP Logged

hrhenry wrote:

Would you seriously consider not learning to differentiate some sounds other than tones? Of course context can often help, but that doesn't mean you are not mispronouncing every word. And there are situations where context doesn't help, for example the words for ten and four differ only in tone in many dialects.

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