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Antimoon/AJATT method for German | ||
Tags: German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| cod2 Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4559 days ago 48 posts - 69 votes  | Message 1 of 18 01 March 2013 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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First off, this is not a thread about the pros and cons of the 10,000 sentences method.
I'd like to hear from anyone who has used the 10,000 sentence + 10,000 hours listening method to learn German. I have done 2,000 sentences now. My passive listening hours probably would come to around 100 hours now. Admittedly nowhere near 10,000 - but I'd like to ask this question regardless. My problem is this: How do I master German cases and adjective endings, because at the moment I am nowhere near mastering them. I know all the rules (here for example), but I couldn't apply them to produce a sentence correctly on first attempt even if my life depended on it. I know it's about subconscious learning and that you shouldn't try to produce English to German translation, but how many sentences and hours was it before you felt confident that you can produce a faultless German sentence if you wanted to? Thanks in advance. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| lingoleng Senior Member Germany Joined 5303 days ago 605 posts - 1290 votes | Message 2 of 18 01 March 2013 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | ||
At first: knowing explicit rules and subconscious learning don't exclude each other, they can very well complement each other. Translating is useful as a tool, but of course you are not allowed to depend on it, translation and production complement each other. What is wrong with the German case system in general? Why on earth do you think you cannot produce a sentence? That makes no sense, sorry. Der Mann. Er ist ein schöner, starker Mann. Der schöne starke Mann dort sieht aus wie Brad Pitt, wow. Die Frau. Sie ist eine schöne, intelligente Frau. Die schöne, intelligente Frau dort sieht aus wie Angelina Jolie, wow. Das Kind. Andrea ist ein schönes, braves Kind. Das schöne, brave Kind dort sieht aus wie Dakota Fanning, unglaublich. Des Mannes. Das Auto hier ist das Auto eines schönen, starken Mannes. Kennst du die Frau des schönen, starken Mannes dort? Der Frau. Das Auto hier ist das Auto einer schönen, intelligenten Frau. Kennst du den Mann der schönen, intelligenten Frau dort? Des Kindes. Die Frau hier ist die Mutter eines schönen, braven Kindes. Kennst du die Mutter dieses schönen, braven Kindes dort? Dem Mann(e). Das Auto gehört einem schönen, intelligenten Mann. Ich schenke das Auto dem schönen intelligenten Mann dort. Der Frau. Das Auto gehört einer schönen, intelligenten Frau. Ich schenke den Ring der schönen, intelligenten Frau dort. Dem Kind(e). Das Fahrrad gehört einem schönen, braven Kind. Ich schenke das Fahrrad dem schönen, braven Kind. Den Mann. Ich liebe einen schönen, intelligenten Mann. Ich liebe den schönen, intelligenten Mann dort. Die Frau. Ich liebe eine schöne, starke Frau. Ich liebe die schöne, starke Frau dort. Das Kind. Ich sehe ein starkes, intelligentes Kind. Siehst du das starke, intelligente Kind dort? Der Mann ist schön. Die Frau ist stark. Das Kind ist intelligent. 39 sentences, for a start, and of course there is more about it, as a native speaker I don't know all the pitfalls, lucky me. How long will it take until you can produce such sentences? Five minutes, maybe, and then another 10000 hours until everything is almost perfect, maybe. Doing some exercises with these sentences will not prevent you from producing sentences on your own later, more like the opposite. If you are not content with the passive role you are supposed to play, become an active learner, which will be a nice complement to your subconscious acquisition! Good luck! edit: typos; compliment changed to complement, rules and learning complimenting each other is a nice idea for a fantasy movie, but not what I had in mind ... Edited by lingoleng on 01 March 2013 at 11:04pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 3 of 18 02 March 2013 at 12:28am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think the 10,000 thing should be taken literally. It's just a guideline, something to strive for. Just a good number.
Are you doing other AJATT stuff, especially MCD? for inspiration and extra tips, see this pdf. it's basically seven success stories, of pretty different learners. one of them was a learner of German (i think she's the learner #4 or somewhere around that), and she learned it naturally with native speakers. i do a lot of AJATT and i'd compare it...hm...to a cat climbing upstairs, lol. the more you understand, the more you can say, but you are never able to say as much as you can understand. so, the cat has started climbing. (what a silly metaphor) when it has reached the second step, its tail is still on the landing. when you can only understand the basics, you can't say anything. eventually, when you understand more, you'll be able to say what you learned to understand a few steps back. and so on. that's the natural way for this to happen. we've had a heated discussion on whether it's possible to speak better than you understand, and in my opinion it is. because there are tons of learners who don't devote enough time to listening. who can speak and understand fellow learners (and teachers), but not a native speaker who's not simplifying his/her speech. (or who simplifies it in the wrong way) with AJATT you'll never be in a situation where you can ask a question perfectly but not understand the answer. well, not until you are taken for a native speaker :) Edited by Serpent on 02 March 2013 at 12:42am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| cod2 Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4559 days ago 48 posts - 69 votes | Message 4 of 18 02 March 2013 at 1:32am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks. No, I haven't done any MCD - never quite saw the point of that.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 5 of 18 02 March 2013 at 2:17am | IP Logged | ||
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the point is exactly to train your active skills. in my opinion it doesn't have to be massive, though.
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| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5135 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 6 of 18 02 March 2013 at 8:54am | IP Logged | ||
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100 hours is nothing. Why don't you wait until you've got 1000 hours under your belt before you worry about production?
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| schoenewaelder Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5565 days ago 759 posts - 1197 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 7 of 18 02 March 2013 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just to point out, that in order to understand the cases, you need to first know the genders, and I imagine even that is quite difficult to pick up, unless you're really making an effort to focus on them.
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 8 of 18 02 March 2013 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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genders are just like everything else. it's not an either/or thing. at first you pick up the genders of the most common words, then gradually less and less of your vocabulary will remain 'genderless'.
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