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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5294 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 9 of 18 18 November 2013 at 1:57am | IP Logged | ||
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I appreciate the recommendation from Serpent. I have great respect for both Serpent and James29. I've been following James29's log for a long time. Though our methods differ, he is now a Spanish-speaker through dint of his dedication, effort, hard work and persistence.
I was hoping to avoid having to write this but, it looks like I'm going to have to do so. WARNING- LONG POST FOLLOWS!!! I should copy it to my HTLAL- beginner file responses. For a more practical demonstration look at how I applied my approach when I started with Haitian Creole in my log- click my name and then "log". My approach is more holistic. I don't eschew courses. I think courses in the beginning are highly useful. They give a good grounding in the fundamentals, and you've got to start somewhere. Where I differ from orthodoxy is by recommending simultaneous course(s) along with some type of native material from the start- even when you won't understand very much at all. Course-world and the real world are very different. That's one reason why learners are sometimes woefully unprepared for the real thing when, after they've been "studying" for maybe even a year, they then try native material and are often shocked to find that they understand a lot less than they expected. Often times they give up, or worse, start doing the same course over. If you are engaging the language from the start, at the same time as you are doing a course, you are much better prepared for the language as it is actually spoken, written and used outside of course-world. My advice would be to pick two courses and do them at the same time, alternating days or one in the morning and the other in the evening, or one after the other in the same time period. If you, for example, do Pimsleur in the morning and then, say, a course in the evening, you'll find that the material from one will often reinforce the other. Add in some comprehensible input- bilingual text, short news item, a song or even a tweet and you are using the "multi-track" approach. Barry Farber described this phenomenon in his book "How to Learn Any Language" like this:
Where a lot of people fall down with using the multi-track approach is focusing too much on any one aspect and giving up too early. Too much focus on courses can leave one unprepared for the way the language is used outside of courses. Too much focus on native input can leave you without a good grounding. A good balance is achievable and desirable to create a good synergy and get the chain-reaction going, in my opinion. In the beginning, courses are most important. In a language like Spanish, you have to get to a point where you recognize gender of nouns and adjectives, can conjugate verbs in the present tense and at least recognize the conjugations for the other tenses before the non-course material will really start to make sense. For native material, I wouldn't start off with Don Quixote or Harry Potter. I'd start off with a short news item (ideally with a bilingual text), a song or something of a few paragraphs and, over time, work my way up. Even if you have to look up every word in the dictionary at the beginning, if you can puzzle out what the sentence means on your own, before you check the translation, you'll be on your way. This is an element that many learners leave out until much later. Also, listening from the beginning is extremely important. Speaking, as often as you can, even imperfectly, especially imperfectly, is very important and often neglected. We tend to learn a lot from our mistakes when we get corrected. Lang8 is great for writing and italki is a good place to find conversation/chat partners. Often, learners will be going great guns in the beginner stages with just their courses and then hit a wall in the intermediate stage because they haven't learned how to learn on their own without the course holding their hand. Using the multi-track approach, you won't have those problems because you'll be used to figuring things out without the guidance of the course. As you progress through the course, the outside resources will become more and more important as the course becomes less of a focus. At this point the course becomes more of a tool to solve problems you're having rather than to teach you from scratch. It's one thing for the course to tell you how the imperfect tense is used, or how the subjunctive is used and why. It's another thing entirely to have already seen it and heard it well before your course gets to it and be aware of it. Then, when you reach that point in your course- "ahhh, that's why they do it that way!". Instead of "what's this!", "how am I ever going to learn this?". The language you are learning has speakers who have accents, speak fast sometimes, run words together and do other frustrating things that your course never really gets around to teaching you. If you already know that and have been exposed to it, the intermediate stage will be a lot easier for you. It'll still be hard, just not nearly as daunting because you will know how to learn on your own- because that's what you've already been doing all along. You won't need Assimil Deux or Trois. In fact, you may not even finish the course you're using because you may become so good at teaching yourself that you won't need it- and that's what it's all about. There are a gazillion resources for Spanish. If I were starting from scratch today, I'd probably start with a couple of courses and a bilingual text or a song. I'd also have a good grammar book and dictionary (online is fine). I'd use Destinos with the accompanying books (easy to find with some searching) and Pimsleur at the same time. I'd devote some time everyday to puzzling out a stretch of text, preferably with accompanying audio from the real world. I'd listen to the same news in English and Spanish, with a transcript, every day. Try to do a little bit more each week by pushing yourself beyond what you think you can do and before you know it, after a few months, you may reach the point where your course will be even more useful to you because it will be helping you with what you are seeing, hearing and speaking on a daily basis. It all starts at the beginning by not making your learning totally, 100%, dependent on courses. Resources: Destinos- An Introduction to Spanish ; FSI- Spanish Basic Course; Word Reference Spanish-English online dictionary; NHK World Spanish News with transcript; Democracy Now- news with transcript; GLOSS DLI- reading, listening exercises; Global Voices English and Spanish for bilingual texts you can make yourself; lyrics training (songs) ; Centro Virtual Cervantes Aveteca- A1 exercises; etc, etc, etc. Edited by iguanamon on 18 November 2013 at 12:12pm 11 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Kunji Newbie United States Joined 4073 days ago 19 posts - 24 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 10 of 18 18 November 2013 at 2:21am | IP Logged | ||
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wow thanks iguanamon! I have tried watching Destinos before, but the video and sound
quality were so bad I couldn't concentrate on the content. I must have seen episode 1 about 20 times. I found some videos called Extra that are for people learning Spanish. I really enjoy them, but probably a little more advanced than Distinos. Extra: http://theeasylearning.blogspot.com/ Edited by Kunji on 18 November 2013 at 2:26am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6629 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 11 of 18 18 November 2013 at 3:09am | IP Logged | ||
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For Destinos, did you use the same legal link that iguanamon posted? I watched them all there and the quality was good, although the video isn't HQ enough to be viewed fullscreen or by connecting your TV to your comp.
(As for obscure grammar, I was referring mostly to Assimil and FSI. You need much less grammar for understanding than for speaking/writing. And I didn't say the native interaction was needed from day 1, but it's far more important than completing coursescoursescources) Edited by Serpent on 18 November 2013 at 3:10am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Kunji Newbie United States Joined 4073 days ago 19 posts - 24 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 12 of 18 18 November 2013 at 3:23am | IP Logged | ||
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Thx Serpent. I was watching them on my TV. I tried again and it was okay on my
computer. Just a little smaller than I am use to watching. :)
Sorry, what does this mean? Native speakers from day 1 is more important than any course? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6629 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 13 of 18 18 November 2013 at 8:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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No, as I said, it's not needed from day 1. But in the long run it's more important than the courses you complete. It doesn't have to be Skype. It doesn't have to be intensive. Start with small things. Understanding a short utterance on twitter or facebook is a success. Writing a simple response is a success.
3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5294 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 14 of 18 18 November 2013 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes! Exactly! I wish more learners would take the initiative to engage the target language outside of and alongside their courses. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. Synergy and making some of those connections on your own can turbocharge your learning. Edited by iguanamon on 18 November 2013 at 11:06pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Kunji Newbie United States Joined 4073 days ago 19 posts - 24 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 15 of 18 18 November 2013 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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I often watch cartoons in Spanish on Netflix with my kids. I am guess that counts. :)
I also downloaded a few songs from the google play store i listen to over and over in Spanish hoping to learn the words (mostly Shakira). I must have listened to them 200 times and still have no idea what they say. I have looked up the lyrics before, but I seem to forget as soon as I turn off the computer. I don't get much out of it, but maybe I am picking up more than I realize. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6629 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 16 of 18 18 November 2013 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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For music, try www.lyricstraining.com
3 persons have voted this message useful |
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