|
 |
Assimil French without toil vs New French | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5563 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 17 of 23 02 November 2012 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
Yes - that's true (I have the 78s from the early 50s and the 45s from the 60s) - but the
earlier lessons are much slower than the later lessons and so they speed up as the course goes on. In my view, Assimil are right - I think to get the best out of the Without Toil (or any Assimil) course one really should probably review the previous 3 lessons to the point where you can listen and understand without referring to the book. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| twopossums Newbie United States Joined 4355 days ago 34 posts - 53 votes Speaks: English* | Message 18 of 23 03 January 2013 at 12:12am | IP Logged | |||||
|
Well hopefully I didn't screw myself up to bad. I've started without toil first. I listened to with ease and it
sounded so mechanical next to the older series and just a look through the first 20 lessons it did not appear to me to be that well organized. The stories seemed to change within a lesson sometimes and there seemed to be no story that went throughout. When I look through my older copy I'm have actually said Wow out loud several times when I see how much they've jammed in there. That being said my plan is to go through With Ease as well. The text in the older book can definitely get outdated. Want to know what the french translation for a Milliner is? You'll find out in lesson 18. Right after you look up what the heck it is in English. Lol. Or maybe you would like to talk about your feelings about 'la crise ministérielle' see lesson 8. OK maybe it does throw a bit much at you in the beginning now that I think about it....but I'm enjoying the heck out of it and I would suggest it to anyone. I'm not doing the Assimil technique. I'm using Shadowing and also memorizing the lessons and then writing them out as best I can from memory. So I'm thinking when I hit lesson 50 and the "active " stage instead of going back to lesson 1 in Without Toil I'll start lesson 1 in With Ease. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Quique Diglot Senior Member Spain cronopios.net/Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4680 days ago 183 posts - 313 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: French, German | Message 19 of 23 03 January 2013 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm going through NFWE and FWT at the same time. If I had to choose only one of them, I'd go with FWT. FWT is longer, introduces more vocab and grammar, and I find the stories more interesting. They certainly are from an era gone-by, but IMHO that adds some charm to them. I don't think French has changed that much, but I'm confident that when you dive into native materials after FWT, you'll quickly learn any possible novelty. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5563 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 20 of 23 03 January 2013 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
It would be useful to compose a list of what is archaic in FWT and the other Without
Toil Assimils. For example, a major difference between FWT and NFWE is the question form - FWT tends to prefer the now relatively archaic (or formal) subject-verb inversion (e.g. Allons- nous au théâtre ce soir?) and NFWE uses the more current est-ce que form or the rising intonation form (e.g. e.g. Est-ce que nous allons au théâtre ce soir?/nous allons au théâtre ce soir?). Of course, one will be understood if you use the subject-verb inversion form - but as I have learnt from experience, one will often get a very funny look if you do, normally followed by 'Oh you're English, I speak English', which defeats the object of learning French somewhat - and also the promise of FWT that it 'is no 'school French' but the real everyday language' Another difference is the accents chosen - I have never heard anyone speak as Mr et Mme Duval do on any of the recordings I have of FWT - but people do speak like the voice artists on NFWE (except much faster). Can anyone tell me if the accent on FWT are the equivalent of the RP English used on old Assimil English courses? Edited by Elexi on 03 January 2013 at 6:38pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4907 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 21 of 23 03 January 2013 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
I've listened to a lot of the lessons on the old FWT, but I haven't really used the course as such. I almost laughed out loud when I first heard the recordings. It sounds like the French equivalent to Laurence Olivier: over-pronounced, over dramatic, mid 20th century actor-speak. Somehow I doubt ordinary French people sounded like that even when the recordings were made.
Nevertheless, I agree with the assessments of FWT. Charming and useful. I've been wondering what to do when I've finished the passive phase but are just at lesson 64 of the active phase. I decided that's when I will start the passive wave of FWT. The nice thing is that you will finish the active wave of NFWE a few chapters before starting the active wave of FWT this way. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5530 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 23 04 January 2013 at 4:53am | IP Logged | |||||
It's worth noting that NFWE is still pretty formal. At least in my experience, the normal conversational forms are:
On a different note, there's a new generation of Assimil courses with a French base. These drop the sans peine entirely, and just have the language name. So far, I've looked at L'Égyptien hiéroglyphique and L'Espagnol, and both of them seem to start much slower than even NFWE, averaging maybe 6 short lines of text in the early lessons, with more detailed grammar notes. (To be fair, the final lessons still look pretty aggressive.) There doesn't seem to be one of these new editions for French yet. Personally, I'm rather fond of NFWE, and I think the early lessons are more fun than the newest Assimil Spanish course. But my sample size is pretty small (3 courses), so this may just be random variation. Edited by emk on 04 January 2013 at 4:53am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5563 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 23 of 23 04 January 2013 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
A good point emk - although I must admit I didn't check if NFWE used the On form as
well (which I think it does)! As to the newer courses - they are in the 'Collection Sans Peine' - so the sans peine is still preserved... I have done L'Allemand in this series and have Le Néerlandais and I agree with your observation about it starting easier - one thing I have notice about the newer courses is that they seem to make more effort to fit the formal syllabus of what is expected in CEFR exams - so the conversations are less irreverent and more functional at the beginning. To be honest I preferred L'Allemand to German with Ease (I am not one of these people who thinks that more words and more text necessarily equals a better course) - I found it more useful, it had a better learning curve and the voice recordings were nicer. But that is my personal preference. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login. If you are not already registered you must first register
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
