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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| vonPeterhof Tetraglot Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4777 days ago 715 posts - 1527 votes  Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish | Message 17 of 24 24 February 2012 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
As for Ukraine, I always thought that Ukrainians objected to на Украине because they think it makes it sound like it's "not a real country", either due to the similarity to на окраине (on the outskirts, at the periphery), or because of the usage of на with some traditional provincial names (Russian на Смоленщине, Ukrainian на Харьківщині). Although I would like someone familiar with Ukrainian to explain this for me. Does на work differently in Ukrainian grammar, or is it just A-okay when they use it? 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 18 of 24 24 February 2012 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I might be wrong but I think in Belarusian на Беларусі is used. Also, my family members from there call it Белоруссия while I, just in case, say Беларусь.
As long as you're not talking to Ukrainians, it doesn't matter which one you use. It won't give you away as a non-native speaker. With Ukrainians better use в Украине. That's what the media is told to use, though in normal speech both are used. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4720 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 19 of 24 24 February 2012 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for clarifying that, guys =)
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kyle Corrie Senior Member United States Joined 4834 days ago 175 posts - 464 votes | Message 20 of 24 27 February 2012 at 1:48am | IP Logged | |||||
Sorry if I'm deviating -- But how is it like German? Your second preposition example doesn't involve movement or direction towards anything. You could say, "Geh in dein Zimmer!" or "Geh auf dein Zimmer!" to indicate movement, but not "in dem Zimmer/im Zimmer". That would just indicate the location of something. Not movement towards it. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s0fist Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5051 days ago 260 posts - 445 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Sign Language, German, Spanish, French | Message 21 of 24 27 February 2012 at 2:51am | IP Logged | |||||
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I won't speak for all of Russia or Ukraine and their populations,
but I don't think there's anything wrong with using на Украине, на Украину. That's still the most common way I say it and what I hear from friends (speaking as a young person) and it's the most common way I've heard it from several Ukrainian friends, none of whom expressed any objections against such use. I don't think Ukraine is unique in that usage/respect, nor does it say anything about the speaker's intent to lessen Ukraine's image or status, after all no one seems to think any less of Russia when we all use на Руси, на родине, or any other places that still commonly employ the preposition на. But of course, even though not wrong, if it irks or bothers your interlocutor feel free to use whichever preposition will placate their patriotism. In the spirit of shedding more light on the issue, I thought I'd mention another amusing, quirky fact. As vonPeterhof mentioned islands typically enjoy the use of на while cities make do with в. Oddly enough Manhattan is both an island and a city and as such it's correct to use both в Манхэттен, на Манхэттен. While I don't think myself a pedant on the issue, the distinction can arise quite naturally for example to delimit the difference between taking a Staten Island ferry на Манхэттен or taking the bus в Манхэттен. Curious souls can find plenty of both online and probably in more mainstream media as well. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 22 of 24 27 February 2012 at 9:20am | IP Logged | |||||
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kyle Corrie Senior Member United States Joined 4834 days ago 175 posts - 464 votes | Message 23 of 24 27 February 2012 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
Not exactly though. If you were to say, "Wir fahren zum Bahnhof." then you have the dative case as well as movement rather than simply location. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5061 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 24 of 24 27 February 2012 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In Russian we can also use dative with к to express movement, but it doesn't deny what
Serpent said. One and the same prep. can be used with different cases to express movement and location in many IE languages. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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