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German: genitive in expressions of time | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| palfrey Senior Member Canada Joined 5277 days ago 81 posts - 180 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 1 of 7 18 March 2012 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I'm having some trouble analyzing a simple-looking sentence in Assimil:
Why is there an "s" at the end of nachmittag? It can be heard on the audio recording, so it is definitely there. And I have found similar sentences elsewhere. But I am unable to make sense of it grammatically. I'm aware that the genitive can express habitual, repeated actions, as shown in these contrasting examples from Assimil:
Also, the genitive can express an indefinite time. (Taken from the Cortina grammar:)
But in "Besuchen Sie uns Freitag nachmittags", we are asking you to visit us at one definite time, namely this coming Friday afternoon. So please, why should we use the genitive (the s-ending) of nachmittag? Thanks for any help. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5603 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 2 of 7 19 March 2012 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The word "nachmittags" is no genitive. You see that it is written with small letters. It is an adverb.
"Besuchen Sie uns Freitag nachmittags" means usually, you can come on any Friday you choose, not only the next. The genitive of time (des Nachts, eines Tages) is limited to fixed expressions. Edited by Cabaire on 19 March 2012 at 12:02am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| buchstabe Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4706 days ago 52 posts - 108 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, French, Spanish Studies: Czech, Swedish, Japanese | Message 3 of 7 19 March 2012 at 12:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Not a complete answer, but I hope it helps a little anyway. The term "nachmittags" is often used synonymously with "am Nachmittag", without distinction between singular and repeated actions. For example, you could plan to go to the cinema with
a friend the next day and ask him "Wollen wir nachmittags oder abends ins Kino gehen?". Similarly, someone could say about an event: "Es ging von 7.00 Uhr morgens bis 8:00 Uhr abends". You don't have to use "nachmittags", though. "Besuchen Sie uns Freitag Nachmittag" (Nachmittag as a noun, just like in English) works as well. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| palfrey Senior Member Canada Joined 5277 days ago 81 posts - 180 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 4 of 7 19 March 2012 at 12:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, thanks, I see now. Nouns are always capitalized. I had completely missed that clue.
In that case, the Assimil translation "Come and see us on Friday afternoon" is misleading, at least to my native English ear.
Thanks again. I will look out for them. But I have another question: Suppose we wanted you to visit us specifically on this coming Friday afternoon. Could we say, "Besuchen Sie uns Freitag nachmittag", without the -s? Or does it now become a noun, to be written "...Freitag Nachmittag"? EDIT: Sorry, that was answered while I was composing this reply. Thanks very much, buchstabe. (In "Heute morgen bleibe ich zu Hause", morgen has no -s. But perhaps it still acts as an adverb in this sentence, since it is not capitalized... hmmm...) EDIT: I guess it must be an adverb, after all. I keep on transferring English spelling conventions to German, only to mislead myself. Edited by palfrey on 19 March 2012 at 12:49am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| buchstabe Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4706 days ago 52 posts - 108 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, French, Spanish Studies: Czech, Swedish, Japanese | Message 5 of 7 19 March 2012 at 12:42am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Technically, it can be considered a (shortened) adverbial genitive (adverbial genitives are for example "eines Tages", "meines Erachtens" or "letzten Endes"). That's what you find in the "Deutsches Wörterbuch von Jacob Grimm und Wilhelm Grimm". Practically, especially for a DAF learner, I agree that it's easier to see it as an adverb. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| palfrey Senior Member Canada Joined 5277 days ago 81 posts - 180 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 6 of 7 19 March 2012 at 1:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think I may have gone wrong here: In trying to rationalize "morgens", I thought of it as a genitive, with the rather poetical English translation "of a morning".
It worked for a while, but thinking it was a genitive eventually led to misunderstanding. Thanks to you both for clearing it up. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| buchstabe Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4706 days ago 52 posts - 108 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, French, Spanish Studies: Czech, Swedish, Japanese | Message 7 of 7 19 March 2012 at 1:09am | IP Logged | ||||||||
It's a noun. :) The official spelling after the German spelling reforms is "Heute Morgen", but many Germans still spell it "heute morgen" out of habit. If your textbook was printed before the reforms, it might also use the non-capitalized spelling. Background info: The German spelling reform / 8. Capitalization 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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