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Understand this French verb feature? | ||
Tags: Verbs/Conjugation | French | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Spinchäeb Ape Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4471 days ago 146 posts - 180 votes  Speaks: English*, German | Message 1 of 6 15 August 2013 at 9:05am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I'm using a GNU free French verb conjugating program named Le Conjugueur under Kubuntu Linux. I cannot speak highly enough of the program. It's completely eliminated the need for me to own a verb book. It was written by a man in France. All the documentation for it is in French, and I'm still very much a beginner. That hasn't been a big problem since the program is quite intuitive.
However, there is one feature that I don't understand. I'd bet someone more skilled at French than I am will get what the software developer did. Here's a screenshot of the main menu with the verb "vouloir" conjugated: 
(In case that doesn't work, direct link: http://imageshack.us/a/img809/1084/3mxr.png) You'll see the icons to the right that represent other features. The icon of the woman changes all the masculine pronouns to feminine. The question mark turns the conjugation into a question (via inversion) and the red slash through symbol creates negation. The one I don't get is the blue circle with a white arrow icon. When I click on that one, very little changes. Only the subjunctive present and the imperative present show any changes at all. When the conjugation for "vouloir" first loads, the subjunctive present looks like this: 
(direct link: http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2827/bgmk.png) When you click on the arrow, it changes to this: 
(Direct link: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/pioi.png) As you can see, the conjugation for "nous" and "vous" changes. It changes like this: que nous voulions --> que nous veuillions que vous vouliez --> que vous veuilliez The only other tense that has any changes when that icon is clicked is the impératif present. Here are the before and afters of that one. Before: 
(direct: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/zwwu.png) After 
(direct: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/xa17.png) With that one, veuille becomes veux and veuillez becomes voulez. What's going on here? Are there some cases where one version of the tense is right, but wrong in others and vice versa? Or is it because of one version becoming archaic or perhaps it's a regional difference? None of the tenses were affected except for the subjunctive present and the imperative present. Edited by Spinchäeb Ape on 15 August 2013 at 9:09am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| LaughingChimp Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4700 days ago 346 posts - 594 votes Speaks: Czech* | Message 2 of 6 15 August 2013 at 10:44am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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They are archaic variants.
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| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5600 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 3 of 6 15 August 2013 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Are they interchangeable?
The imperative eg. is not: "Veuillez agréer, Madame, Monsieur, l'expression de mes salutations distinguées." but "Enfin, mon conseil permanent est celui-ci: voulez!" The first form "veuillez!" is the usual form; you can only use "voulez" if you order someone to make an effort of will. Then no infinitive can follow. But are these the same (one a bit old fashioned) "Il faut que vous vouliez réussir." "Il faut que vous veuillez réussir." And are there more? - que nous valions (que nous vaillions?!?) Edited by Cabaire on 15 August 2013 at 2:06pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5600 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 4 of 6 15 August 2013 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I just have seen that the form "que nous vaillions" did not please the acedemy of the French language: "il luy sembloit bien rude".
The book was printed in MDCCV, so the discussion is quite old. Edited by Cabaire on 15 August 2013 at 2:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| sfeinst Newbie United States Joined 4595 days ago 21 posts - 26 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 5 of 6 15 August 2013 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I don't know french well enough to help, but I went to the web site for the software and you can conjugate verbs there. I put in vouloir and it returned a screen show what I think are first and second forms. I don't know the difference between first and second forms, but the changes you see hitting that button seem to match. Maybe someone who know the language better can explain what the difference is between first and second forms.
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| umiak Groupie Poland Joined 4513 days ago 51 posts - 77 votes Speaks: Polish* | Message 6 of 6 16 August 2013 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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There are, at least technically, two possible forms of 'vouloir' in the imperative:
(tu) veuille/veux (vous) veuillez/voulez Both are in use, but it depends on context when you use the first one or the other one. Here's a general rule:
Thus, to express a polite command 'veuille' and 'veuillez' are usually used. [And, indeed, these forms of imperative are also called 'impératif de politesse'.] If you really want someone to exercise their volition, then the 'veux' or 'voulez' should be used:
In spoken French, and quite often in the written language, the expression 'en vouloir à qn' (to bear a grudge against someone) takes the forms: 'veux' or 'voulez'. However, the 'veuille' and 'veuillez' are also possible (these are usually recieived as literary or archaic):
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