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| jae Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5667 days ago 206 posts - 239 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Latin Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, French | Message 1 of 19 23 May 2009 at 6:08pm | IP Logged |
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I have been studying Russian for a few weeks now, and this grammar is very difficult and I haven't been able to understand it. So my question is:
Why is it: два (two) but: две девочки (two girls) and Why is it: мальчики (boys) but: три мальчика (three boys) Why do the endings of the numbers and nouns sometimes change? What is the rule? Thank you so much! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| robertdover8 Groupie United States Joined 6023 days ago 43 posts - 42 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 2 of 19 23 May 2009 at 6:48pm | IP Logged |
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I don't study Russian but I do know the answer!
The answer is--> There is no reason it's like that! Most things you encounter in languages have no reason or rational behind them at all. It's one of those things you just have to accept and just memorize. Language is kind of like an art. It's always up to interpretation. It would be so much easier if it were like math, just going step by step, but far less interesting. Good luck with your studies! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| jae Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5667 days ago 206 posts - 239 votes Speaks: English*, German, Latin Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, French | Message 3 of 19 23 May 2009 at 7:01pm | IP Logged |
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I realize that there is no "reason" persay, however, I would like to learn the rule for when I need to do this so that I can better understand the grammar, etc. I just don't want to keep writing things in Russian and have people correct them without me understanding why I was right/wrong. But thanks for your prompt response! Edited by jae on 23 May 2009 at 7:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6912 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 19 23 May 2009 at 7:02pm | IP Logged |
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Jae, sometimes you just have to accept that languages have their own peciliarities and that Russian isn't just "English with other words".
You might want to have a look at the basics of Russian grammar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_grammar 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Weizenkeim Diglot Groupie GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6107 days ago 70 posts - 72 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Russian | Message 5 of 19 23 May 2009 at 7:03pm | IP Logged |
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it has to do with case endings (and gender)
the counted noun appears in genitive form, singular if there are 2,3 or 4 plural if there are 5+ of the counted item 1 and 2 will change form depending on noun gender, where две is fem. of 2 so it will be: две,три,четыре девочки два,три,четыре мальчика (gen.sg) пять,шесть,семь... девочек/мальчиков (gen.pl) I hope I didn_t make a mistake here, I am still russian beginner as well. I found this confusing at first, too. But it is not all that complicated. Think of it as 2,3,4 of X, five... of the X-es. Only thing to kep in mind is that genitive plural can be irregular sometimes. you can find declension/conjugation tables for lots of words in the russian wiktionary. I find it often really useful. http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/ Edited by Weizenkeim on 23 May 2009 at 7:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5769 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 6 of 19 23 May 2009 at 7:18pm | IP Logged |
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Hello Jae
1) два is used with masculine and neuter nouns (and the masculine and neuter plurals, I believe) две is used with feminine singular and feminine plural nouns. 2) Also, different numbers are followed by different cases. "One" and all numbers ending in "one" except for 11 - are followed by the nominative singular. "11" is followed by the genitive plural because the number ends in the suffix "-надцать" "Two", "Three" and "Four", are all followed by the genitive singular, except for 14 which is followed by the genitive plural - because of -надцать again. All numbers ending in 5 or something similar are followed by the genitive plural - so 5 students, 25 students, 37 buildings, 58 cars... BUT 24 women, 33 trees, 62 computers, would all be in the genitive singular because they end in 2,3,4. Один студент. Тридцать один студент. Сорок один диван. Пять один дерево. (these are all nominative singulars) Два брата. Двадцать две студента. - genitive singular. Четыре машины. Сорок четыре машины. - genitive singular. Пять окон. Двадцать пять окон. - genitive plural. So, to your examples: мальчики - without any context I can only assume that's a nominative plural. три мальчика - genitive singular because "3" takes the genitive singular. That, hopefully, answers your question. It's a complicated issue, but I hope I haven't overcomplicated it for you. If you want any further clarification just ask! Jack PS - If you need a good grammar book, The New Penguin Russian course by Nicholas J. Brown is a good one - it'll give you all the basics of grammar you need, including your problem with numbers. If you want a reference grammar, although it's very big and scary, I recommmend A Comprehensive Russian Grammar by Terence Wade. Good luck! Edited by LanguageSponge on 23 May 2009 at 7:29pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5769 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 7 of 19 23 May 2009 at 7:22pm | IP Logged |
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Weizenkeim, the only mistake you made, as far as I can see at least, was your spelling of the numeral "six", which is spelt "шесть". "честь" is a feminine noun meaning "honour".
Jack 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Weizenkeim Diglot Groupie GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6107 days ago 70 posts - 72 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Russian | Message 8 of 19 23 May 2009 at 7:25pm | IP Logged |
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language sponge, I wasn't aware of 21 being an exception. Was it maybe 11 (одиннадцать) you had in mind? Or maybe I missed something myself. (Which is quite likely in most cases, but 21 would be, двадцать один, wouldn't it?)
edit: шесть of course. I am such an expert :) Edited by Weizenkeim on 23 May 2009 at 7:27pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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