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Possessive in English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5898 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes  Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 1 of 10 13 June 2009 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi
I've a question about the possessive in English: I understand and haven't problems to use his, her and their (I know they refer the owner, not the owned object, and I understand the m/f/pl). The question is this, for example : The person hold the book in _______ hands. His / her /their ?????? (I think that it must not be: in the hands as well) Thank you very much!!!!  Edited by Jar-ptitsa on 13 June 2009 at 5:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6148 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes | Message 2 of 10 13 June 2009 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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In this sentence, any of the three can be put into the blank, although "their" is dubious.
He and she are of course used depending on whether "the person" is male or female while "their" is used by some as a gender-neutral pronoun if the speaker wishes to be ambiguous or isn't sure about the gender. Also, it should be "holds". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5766 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 3 of 10 13 June 2009 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi Jar-ptitsa,
In answer to what I think your question is, we can say the following: The person holds the book in his (or her, depending on the gender of the person) hands.
Hope that answers your question. If I've misunderstood, then feel free to say! EDIT: I agree with the above regarding "their". At first I was hesitant about mentioning it because of the ambiguity that using "their" would imply in this case. Jack Edited by LanguageSponge on 13 June 2009 at 5:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5898 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 4 of 10 14 June 2009 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi Alkeides and Language Sponge,
Thank you very much !!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know the gender of the person, it's hypothetical, and I want to write in the formal style. therefore it must be like this (?): The person holds the book in their hands. It seems wrong: singular and plural!!! If I would write: "in his hands" it's sexist, no? usually I wrote it like this "in his / her hands" but some people told me off (this forum) for use his/ her. What an annoying problem! Dutch has the same one but I think that German (which wouodl have also) hasn't because you say : "in the hands" but if it's not connected at the body, it would be this problem, for example : "in his / her house" It's simpler in the languages, which make the possessive with the object owned because this gender is evident!!! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6148 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes | Message 5 of 10 14 June 2009 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Using "their" in this context is informal actually. Perhaps you could elaborate on the nature of the text you are writing. If you're writing instructions you could use "One holds the book in one's hands." if you want to be absolutely gender-neutral without using "their" which is frowned upon by many people.
I think that's unnecessary personally, you could use "his" in this context just as well as a generic pronoun regardless of gender. People who disapprove of this are mostly feminists. Greek also has a similar use for the definite article (the) for possession. Edited by Alkeides on 14 June 2009 at 5:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Jiwon Triglot Moderator Korea, South Joined 6436 days ago 1417 posts - 1500 votes Speaks: EnglishC2, Korean*, GermanC1 Studies: Hindi, Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 10 14 June 2009 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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Unless the people who are reading your sentence are extreme-feminists, you won't run into much trouble for saying "his" hands. "They" has been used as a non-gender-specific 3rd person singular for a long time in history of English (even Shakespeare and Jane Austen used "they") but modern super-correctionism seems to be against the use of "they" for that purpose.
If you don't feel comfortable, you can always retreat to "his/her". That's how I avoid awkwardness. It sounds a bit wordy and unnatural, but doesn't lead to someone going: "That HE is a SHE". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TheBiscuit Tetraglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 5923 days ago 532 posts - 619 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Italian Studies: German, Croatian | Message 7 of 10 14 June 2009 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes, it becomes somewhat cumbersome to keep writing/saying his/her so their is used as short of inventing another word, it's the best option. You could avoid it by saying just 'the person holds the book'. We'd probably assume from context that it was being held in his/her/their hands. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5766 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 8 of 10 14 June 2009 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi,
You said above that it is a hypothetical situation, which means, then, that you are unsure of the gender. Alkeides said that it is common in English to use the word "their" if the gender of the person is unknown; this even holds when the actual subject of the sentence is in the singular. It may sound wrong (it even sounds wrong to me if I think about it for too long), but I believe it's right, and I say it like this a lot of the time. I would say, however, that a lot of the doubt in my mind comes from using the noun "person" - we'd never be that vague in a real situation.
I hope my attempted explanation above is helpful, and I hope you don't mind the corrections. Jack 1 person has voted this message useful |
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