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Burton in Volapükistan | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| pfn123 Senior Member Australia Joined 5084 days ago 171 posts - 291 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 17 of 51 22 April 2011 at 1:38am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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EXTENDED QUOTE
In my first post, I quoted from Wright's biography of Burton, in which Burton explains his method of learning a new language. The quote was the reason for this log: to try out his method and see what we learn. I have since found a video by syzygycc (I have included the video in the post on resources), which had a fuller quote. So, I did some digging, and came up with this, a fuller quote: The college teaching, for which one was obliged to pay, was of the most worthless description… The worst of such teaching was, that it had no order and no system. Its philology was ridiculous, and it did nothing to work the reasoning powers. Learning foreign languages, as a child learns its own, is mostly work of pure memory, which acquires, after childhood, every artificial assistance possible. My system of learning a language in two months was purely my own invention, and thoroughly suited myself. I got a simple grammar and vocabulary, marked out the forms and words which I knew were absolutely necessary, and learnt them by heart by carrying them in my pocket and looking over them at spare moments during the day. I never worked for more than a quarter of an hour at a time, for after that the brain lost its freshness. After learning some three hundred words, easily done in a week, I stumbled through some easy bookwork (one of the Gospels is the most comfortable), and underlined every word that I wished to recollect, in order to read over my pencillings at least once a day. Having finished my volume, I then carefully worked up the grammar minutiae, and I then chose some other book whose subject most interested me. The neck of the language was now broken, and progress was rapid. If I came across a new sound, like the Arabic Ghayn, I trained my tongue to it by repeating it so many thousand times a day. When I read, I invariably read out loud, so that the ear might aid memory. I was delighted with the most difficult characters, Chinese and Cuneiform, because I felt that they impressed themselves more strongly upon the eye than the eternal Roman letters. This, by-and-by, made me resolutely stand aloof from the hundred schemes for transliterating Eastern languages, such as Arabic, Sanscrit, Hebrew and Syriac, into Latin letters, and whenever I conversed with anybody in a language that I was learning, I took the trouble to repeat their words inaudibly after them, and so to learn the trick of pronunciation and emphasis. This extended quote doesn't add much to what I have already distilled. But for the sake of fullness, it's good to have. And what's more, it does give some interesting details. Burton used one of the gospels for his 'easy bookwork'. This is a good choice, as it is also available in English, and so they can be read side-by-side, removing the need for dictionary. Also, he says it took him two months. I'll do my best to stick to this. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| aldous Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5243 days ago 73 posts - 174 votes Speaks: English*, French | Message 18 of 51 24 April 2011 at 3:24am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I am also very interested in this project, both the Volapük and Burton angles. I studied Volapük last fall (the 1880s version) and very much liked it. I didn't pursue it very far because I was discouraged at the lack of reading material. But I find the language in itself quite charming.
I'm sure you'll have no trouble reading comfortably after two months. The grammar's a snap. The vocabulary is a little odd, but should be quite easy compared with the kinds of languages Burton was dealing with. That raises a question in my mind. This experiment is sort of doing Burton a favor. You're testing out Burton's method with an extremely easy language (not quite as easy as Esperanto, but just about), so it'll make Burton's method look very effective. How would it go using his method on a natural language unrelated to English? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| pfn123 Senior Member Australia Joined 5084 days ago 171 posts - 291 votes Speaks: English* | Message 19 of 51 24 April 2011 at 7:28am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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WHY I CHOSE VOLAPÜK
When I was about twelve or thirteen, I read about Volapük. It seemed like such an interesting idea. I wanted to learn it. I read a little online about the history of the language, but unfortunately, I never got around to learning the language. I wish I had. So, it's a language I've wanted to learn for quite a while.
Well, it's good to hear from some one who has studied the language. Have you tried studying revised Volapük at all? Any idea on how different they are?
Thanks :D
I do see your point. And I agree. I chose Volapük because it's a language I want to study. But also, because it's an IAL, and so more regular than a natural language, I thought it would ease the burden a little, and allow me to focus on the method. The aim of this log is to try Burton's method. Not just learn a language. But I'm thinking that after two months of studying Volapük, I should summarise what I've learnt, and then carry the log on studying a natural language. If I decide soon, then two months will be long enough to collect materials. I would choose a language different from anything I've studied before, so I can really put Burton's method through its paces. Here are my thoughts on which languages might suit: CAMBODIAN: Cambodian is a language I'd like to study. HINDI: A language I was planning to study next year anyway. YORUBA: An out-there language for me. A while ago, I bought a copy of Colloquial Yoruba that was on special at the bookseller's. Actually, when I bought it, I knew Yoruba was an African language, but that was all I knew about the geography of the language. I knew FSI made a Yoruba Basic Course, and I thought that if I wanted to learn it, I could use the Colloquial and the FSI. So I bought it. Well, if I really wanted to test Burton's method, this would be the most extreme and challenging of the three languages. I'm leaning towards Yoruba. I'd study for two months, and see how far I can get, keeping the log to mark my progress. What do you think. Any thoughts? Either on the idea, or on the choice of language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| cntrational Triglot Groupie India Joined 5128 days ago 49 posts - 66 votes Speaks: Hindi, Telugu, English* Studies: French | Message 20 of 51 24 April 2011 at 7:37am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Wouldn't Volapük theoretically be the most challenging language, because it was literally abandoned for being too complex?
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| pfn123 Senior Member Australia Joined 5084 days ago 171 posts - 291 votes Speaks: English* | Message 21 of 51 24 April 2011 at 7:48am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Well, even the most challenging constructed IAL is more regular, and easier to learn, than any natural language. But still, the version of Volapük I'm going to learn is the revised version of Arie de Jong, which I've read is simpler, especially as regards the verb. But, we'll see. Watch this space... :D 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| pfn123 Senior Member Australia Joined 5084 days ago 171 posts - 291 votes Speaks: English* | Message 22 of 51 24 April 2011 at 10:03am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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WEEK ONE
Tomorrow I begin. Burton said he did this in his first week: 'I got a simple grammar and vocabulary, marked out the forms and words which I knew were absolutely necessary, and learnt them by heart by carrying them in my pocket and looking over them at spare moments during the day... learning some three hundred words, easily done in a week' This first week is to learn by heart the most essential grammar and vocabulary. I'll go through 'A quick Look At Volapük'. It's just what it sounds like. A survey-style course, giving the main points of Volapük grammar, a basic vocabulary, and some exercises. Also, I have a small Volapük grammar, that I'll use as well. mr chinnery asked me how I can know what are the forms and words that are absolutely necessary. I have compiled a list of some 300 words. Two criteria decided the selection of words: 1. Words based on frequency (I referenced a frequency list of English words) 2. Usefulness. I have no one to talk with but myself to practise the language. Therefore, I included words of things around me, so that I can make sentences about the things in my house, garden, and neighbourhood. And so we begin... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| aldous Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5243 days ago 73 posts - 174 votes Speaks: English*, French | Message 23 of 51 24 April 2011 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I did take a look at the revised version, but didn't study it. They're distinct, but fairly similar. My impression was that they would be mutually intelligible.
I had heard that too about Volapük. In fact that's why I decided to study it. The thought of learning an absurdly difficult artificial language amused me. But I discovered it isn't hard at all. This idea that Volapük was abandoned because people found it too difficult is a myth. There were a couple reasons for Volapük's demise, as I recall. One was that it kept being revised. During the 1880s a new revision to the grammar book came out every couple of years, and all the teachers would have to go and learn all the modifications. The other reason was that the creator couldn't let go of his creation. He was resistant to input from other Volapükists. So when people wanted to propose reform, they did so by creating rival languages. Enthusiasts were divided among the different versions of the language, and the movement fragmented. If Schleyer had had the same good management sense that Zamenhof had, all the Esperantists today might be speaking Volapük instead.
You've come across the Volapük discussion group, right? I think it's possible to connect with speakers that way and talk via Skype.
Good luck! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| pfn123 Senior Member Australia Joined 5084 days ago 171 posts - 291 votes Speaks: English* | Message 24 of 51 25 April 2011 at 12:24am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Phew... good to hear. I've come accross this 'myth' as well, in preparing for the challenge. But it occured to me that it can't be true. If Volapük was so difficult, it would not have been as popular as it was. Many people were fluent in the language, using it at meetings and the like. Good to hear it from some one who has studied the language. Thanks.
It must be a very fine line if you create something like this. One the one hand, there needs to be enough leadership to maintain order and unity, on the other hand, people need to be allowed freedom and a chance to offer their own input. It must be difficult. And, when I think about it, Schleyer had no forerunner to look to, to model himself off. He had to make it up as he went.
Hahaha, I think that, historically, this is true. But I know some people who would not appreciate such a comment. But good point still.
You know, I hadn't thought of that. I just thought I'd talk to myself (and my cats). Burton used to talk aloud to himself it seems, so I thought I'd do the same. I was definitely planning to try to interact with the Volapük community online to practise using the language, but I hadn't thought of using skype. I think I'll look into it as I go. Thanks for the suggestion.
Thank you! I appreciate it :D 1 person has voted this message useful |
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