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"Switch to English" only in West Germany? | ||
Tags: Convincing native speakers | Germany | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4668 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 17 of 27 26 October 2012 at 11:51pm | IP Logged | ||
And when they do, you half wish they would switch back again. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4462 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 18 of 27 29 October 2012 at 11:54am | IP Logged | ||
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Many Germans speak good English but many struggle with the language or have no real need or desire to use it in everyday life. Why should they? Germany is a large country with a strong economy, most jobs do not require knowledge of a foreign language. Lots of German people barely venture abroad or just go to places where German is spoken. German TV is all in German and the cinemas show movies in German. The bookstore stocks only German books. You can easily lead your whole life in Germany using just German.
When you meet these people, they do not try and switch to English. They are happy being spoken to in their own language within their own country. And there are millions of them. As for the millions of Germans who do speak good to excellent English. A significant proportion of them are happy to speak German with outsiders who are clearly trying to learn the language. I have had lengthy conversations in German with people whose English was at least equal to my German. This idea that everyone suddenly switches to fluent English at the slightest hint of a foreign accent or after the tiniest grammar mistake is simply not based in reality. (Try talking to bus drivers and plumbers, see how often they break into immaculate English). It is true that in a business setting, people often gravitate to the language which gets the transaction done with the minimum of fuss. But I bet a lot of these guys would happily talk German over a beer afterwards. Edited by beano on 29 October 2012 at 10:30pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4528 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 19 of 27 29 October 2012 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | ||
Further to the point about Bavaria above, try talking to a Bavarian plumber! OK, most tourists, thankfully, aren't put in that situation, but it brings back memories for me. At least back in the 80s and 90s it seemed like you were almost equally likely to succeed in Spanish as in English in such a situation (which is to say, not all that likely). In my time in Bavaria, the only times I can recall a native German intentionally addressing me in English were my elementary school teacher, when I was "fresh-off-the-boat" from the US (and in retrospect, I think that was possible mainly because she was exceptional), and the local pediatrician (who was obviously very well-educated) when I was sick, and he wanted to make sure that I was in an emotionally comforting environment and that my mother understood everything perfectly. My mother in fact used to ask people if they spoke English (e.g., bank tellers, postal workers) and be told "Nein, ich spreche kein Englisch," only to have them reluctantly switch to English after seeing how poor her German was (though I suspect she was hamming it up at times, hoping to elicit the switch by this subtle subterfuge). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6543 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 20 of 27 29 October 2012 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have never ever had a German switch to English, but sometimes people who have been speaking some dialect or at least a regional variant of High German in my presence switch to more standardized High German when they have found out that I'm a foreigner. And that's a pity because I like hearing them speak in other kinds of German - including those variants I haven't studied.
I listened to one half hour of Low German yesterday so I know that I can cope with it - but in Germany I have never had a conversation in Platt, not even with the other person speaking that language or dialect or whatever it is. In Switzerland I have the feeling that Schwiizertüütsch is kept as a secret - they can't quite hide their special 'tone', but they do try. And I wish they would stop. If they want to be nice then they could avoid the most incomprehensible Swiss German dialect words and expressions, but keep the pronunciation. However I have heard that they don't even speak Swiss German to Germans and Austrians, and the TV stations from Switzerland and Austria on my mother's Astra box are chemically cleansed from any trace of regionalism. It seems that they deliberately try to give the impression that they speak like an average German dude. Well, maybe there is a Swiss German version of Heidi around (replete with violet Milka cows and ailing grandpas and cuckoo-clocks), but that's too extreme - I would like just to hear the news in Swiss dialect once in a while. This is different from Scotland where most people stick to their special accent even with non-Scotsmen around, and where you can hear Angloscots in whole TV series. Edited by Iversen on 29 October 2012 at 6:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4668 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 21 of 27 30 October 2012 at 1:32am | IP Logged | ||
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To Iversen:
Any Schwiizertüütsch internet radio stations? There may be a little more liberalism on radio. Edit: Did you cope with the Platt by virtue of specifically having studied Platt, or from your knowledge of Dutch (or both)? Would a Dutch or Flemish speaker (who hadn't specifically learned Platt) cope? Edited by montmorency on 30 October 2012 at 1:34am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4361 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 22 of 27 02 November 2012 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | ||
I can't comment the situation in Switzerland, but in Austria it is like this: The language used on TV and radio is Standard Austrian German. It's like Standard German, but some words are different (mainly words for different types of food) and the pronunciation usually differs from Standard German (eg. devoiced consonants, no aspiration, different accent, ...). I guess the main reason for this choice is that Standard Austrian German is the prestige language in Vienna (and a growing number of people there don't speak a dialect any more ... sad but true). If you talk to the average guy on the streets, at least on the countryside, you will get a response in his dialect. Most people, especially older ones, would not switch to Standard German unless you ask them to. Even then they might automatically switch back to their dialect after one or two sentences. "Wien ist anders", though. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Badner Diglot Newbie GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5092 days ago 16 posts - 21 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish | Message 23 of 27 03 November 2012 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | ||
The news is the only program on Swiss television (at least on SF1 and SFzwei) where the presenters always speak Swiss Standard German. The weather forecast after the news is already in Swiss German. ;-) The choice of language at sporting events is quite interesting. As long as the presenters and commentators are visible on the screen and talk to the audience or other Swiss people, they speak Swiss German, even if non-Swiss people are present. At the same time the presenters speak Swiss Standard German to non-Swiss people, so they sometimes change the language in the middle of a sentence. (It's quite strange at Champions League matches with Gilbert Gress as expert, who speaks Standard German with a slight French accent, but has been living in Switzerland for many years and definitely understands Swiss German.) The commentator speaks Standard German during the match, but Swiss German before and after the match when visible on the screen. If there's a co-commentator, he speaks Swiss German. Movies and TV series usually aren't dubbed in Swiss German, instead the "Federal German" version is used, but you can often opt for the original version. Swiss films are normally in Swiss German. In case they are supposed to be broadcast on German TV, they are dubbed in Standard German (e.g. the Swiss episodes of "Tatort"). Edited by Badner on 03 November 2012 at 5:18pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4668 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 24 of 27 07 November 2012 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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My perception has been that the problem in Switzerland is not so much Swiss-German
(although that might be a problem), but the use of dialects, and they are really inscrutable to someone who has only ever learned standard Hochdeutsch. Is that a fair summary? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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