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Log Subforum: Danish as a rare language! | ||
Tags: Rare Languages | Danish | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Skandinavisk & Nordisk |  | |
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5453 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 17 of 31 30 July 2012 at 12:35am | IP Logged | ||
I think it has more to do with how Icelanders pronounce the vowels and consonants than with prosody. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Miiyii Groupie Greenland Joined 5583 days ago 59 posts - 97 votes | Message 18 of 31 21 August 2012 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | ||
No, none of us sound Norwegian when we speak Danish! ;) (I'm half and half, so I of course speak with a standard Danish pronunciation whenever I speak Danish.) Since some hard sounds in Greenlandic are also found in Danish, it's very easy for us to pronounce them. The Danish and Greenlandic 'r' is f.x pronounced in the same way, and the Greenlandic 'double r', is pronounced like 'kr' in the Danish words krage, krog, kræ and so on.. ! :)))) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4828 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 19 of 31 22 August 2012 at 1:21am | IP Logged | ||
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While searching for something else (as is often the way of these things), I happened
again upon a Youtube video of Professor Arguelles giving us an overview of Danish (he's done one for all the Germanic languages), and then found a linked video, posted by a Dane, who had politely asked Professor Arguelles' permission to read the same text (the one about Luther) as a Dane would read it. He explains more about why he did it on the video. It's quite interesting, and answered a couple of my questions, although I'm sure I will find the Danish spoken language an uphill struggle for some time to come! http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=vkvu6S3_m2s Edited by montmorency on 22 August 2012 at 1:23am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 20 of 31 22 August 2012 at 11:17am | IP Logged | ||
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It is fine that he made that second 'native' reading of the text to supplement profArguelles' video, but the explanatory part contains several factual errors. For instance Danish "å" is nothing like German "ä" (that honour is reserved for "æ"), and a Danish "hakkebøf" is made of minced meat and nothing else so it can't possible be translated into "hamburger" - however the flat round meat slice inside a hamburger could be seen as a somewhat thin "hakkebøf". Edited by Iversen on 22 August 2012 at 11:19am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4828 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 21 of 31 22 August 2012 at 6:33pm | IP Logged | ||
I actually started to post something about his comments about German & Danish sounds, but then thought better of it, since I might have been mistaken. Good to hear from a native speaker on the subject! Would you say Danish ø and German ö are similar? I used to think so, but now am having second thoughts........ Thanks. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 31 22 August 2012 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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Danish 'ø' and German 'ö' are often very close to being identical, although German hasn't got the Danish stød (a not very hard glottal stop). Let's take a few cases - first some closed 'ø' sounds:
closed: Danish "blød" has a long and closed 'ø' before a soft d. German "blöd" has a long and closed 'ö' before a hard d. Those two are for all practical purposes the same sound. Danish "stød" has a short and and closed vowel (ending on a soft d), but to find a similar 'ö' in German you would probably go for open syllables, and then they have a tendency to become longer. "Skød" without the famous stød means 'lap' in English, but with stød it is the preterite of "at skyde". In both cases the vowel is closed. The word "stød" itself has somewhat ironically not got a stød. NB: "tynd" has exactly the same /ø/-sound as "skød" - all short 'y' sounds are pronounced as 'ø', but the long ones are pronounced as ¨long German 'ü'. "tynd" has got a stød, but derivates like "tyndskid" (popular word for diarrhea) haven't got one. more open: Danish "brød" (porridge) and German "Brötchen" both have a fairly short vowel, but the German on is longer. To my ears the Danish sound is slightly more open, but so little that you don't have to care about it. The vowel in Danish "køn" (gender or pretty) is also fairly open and it has 'stød', but apart from that it is similar to the sound in German "können" very open: Before an 'r' most vowels open up, and this also applies to both 'ø' and 'ö', as for instance in "mørk" and "mørke". The town "Görlitz" is pronounced with a similar sound. open o-sounds: Before j and soft g* the written 'ø' often becomes part of a diphtong and will then be pronounced as a fairly short open o sound: "møg" (without stød), "røg" and "støj" (both with stød) are pronounced with almost the same sound as in the name "Stoiber" - apart from the stød. But there are exceptions with a long closed /ø/: "søge", "bøge" (and the imperative form "søg"). * A few hundred years ago some Danes would still pronounce a true soft 'g', which sounded almost list a voiced variant of German "ch" as in Licht. But in standard danish it will be mostly be pronounced as written j (as in the cases above). Edited by Iversen on 26 August 2012 at 1:39am 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4828 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 23 of 31 24 August 2012 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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Wow, thanks Iversen. Very helpful. So, not a simple, one-size-fits-all answer, as I
should have expected. Vowels can be affected by what's around them of course (as they also are in English). By the way (for other reasons), I finally got around to trying: https://acapela-box.com/AcaBox/index.php which you recommended some time ago. (I was slow to try as I assumed it was something I'd have to pay for! :) ) Well, you can pay, but there is a great free service, and it's really good. I'll take a native speaker's word for it that it's not too far from real Danish, and it sounds pretty good to me, FWIW. So if anyone else is having problems with how a particular piece of Danish text should be pronounced, I'd say go there and give it a try. It should be of at least some help. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sans-serif Tetraglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4559 days ago 298 posts - 470 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, German, Swedish Studies: Danish | Message 24 of 31 24 August 2012 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | ||
I have more than enough on my plate right now, but I too am planning to learn enough Danish to read and listen to it comfortably some time in the future. What I'm actually shooting for is Greenlandic, but many of the better resources for it seem to be in Danish, so why not. There's a soft spot in my heart for all Scandinavian languages. :-) While I doubt I'm going to commit myself to speaking it, I'd love to see if I can wrap my tongue around some of the phonetics. Sadly, all of that will have to wait until my Swedish is just a little bit better. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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