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Josquin’s Language Symphony (RU, IR, 東亜) | ||
Tags: Gaelic (Scottish) | Gaelic (Irish) | Icelandic | Portuguese | Multilingual | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | Italian | Japanese | Russian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4842 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes  Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 521 of 646 16 September 2013 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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MONDAY, 16 SEPTEMBER 2013
Well, I have been thinking on how to go on with my languages and the answer may surprise you. I won’t start a new language right now! In fact, I’m a bit tired of textbooks at the moment, so I will concentrate on the languages I’m already studying. I would like to read a bit in Russian, Icelandic, and Gaelic and learn some Irish and Japanese on the side when I feel like it. I might revive my Italian, too, because I could need some brush-up concerning the subjunctive and the passato remoto and literary language in general. Anyway, I’m especially keen on the Celtic languages right now and would like to concentrate on them for the time being. I’m not adding Welsh to the mix right now, but it’s still on my "hit list". Concerning Irish, Ó Siadhail's book seems to be a little bit too old-fashioned for my taste. It teaches Irish like a dead language! So, I’ll have to try something different. I’ll have a look at Teach Yourself and maybe Living Language is another option. We’ll see. So, I’ll try to focus on enhancing my current languages. Let’s see how long that will last before wanderlust strikes me again. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| liammcg Senior Member Ireland Joined 4602 days ago 269 posts - 397 votes Speaks: English* | Message 522 of 646 16 September 2013 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hey, Josquin! Congrats on finishing the two books! Even if Colloquial wasn't what you
were expecting, it's still progress! That Gaelic book sounds quite interesting, though I don't think I'll tackle it just yet with my shaky German ;) I wonder could you allude to some of the dialectical differences between Uist and Lewis Gaelic as described in that chapter? (nerd alert). I can't seem to find much information on (Scottish) Gaelic dialects on the web at all. Anyway, I'm aiming for a South Uist accent myself. I've never used Learning Irish before, but from flicking through it I agree it seems a bit dry and grammar orientated. However, I have heard that it's the single best course for learning Irish currently available on the market, and so I may pick up a copy out of interest to see how it approaches grammar. I'm I correct in saying that it focuses on the Cois Fharraige dialect? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4842 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 523 of 646 16 September 2013 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks a lot, liammcg! Well, yes, the quality of Colloquial Irish was way below the average quality of other Colloquial courses, but at least it was an enjoyable introduction to the language. Learning Irish is much more comprehensive, but unfortunatly very dry, just as you said.
I can imagine that using Learning Irish in combination with another course could work out, but I don't think that it would be very good on its own. Another possibility would be to use it after completing another course, just to work on more advanced grammar and to add vocabulary, but not as a first introduction to the language. Ó Siadhail teaches conditional sentences (with "bi") even before you learn the present tense of regular verbs. And the dialogues... oh dear! But yes, you're correct. The focus is on the dialect of Cois Fharraige, just as in Colloquial Irish by the way. Well, concerning Lewis vs. Uist Gaelic: I noticed only slight differences in pronunciation. The Lewis u has the tendency towards an ü sound and, I don't know how to describe it, the pronunciation sounds a little bit "sharper" in general. If you PM me, I could send you the MP3 files in case you're interested. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5332 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 524 of 646 17 September 2013 at 10:14am | IP Logged | ||
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I am sure it is a good choice to focus on the languages you already study. You have quite a handful :-) And
the good part is, that whenever you feel the urge for a new shiny language, you can always change your mind! Isn't life wonderful like that :-) Edit: Writing posts in the queue to a flight does not produce well written posts... Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 17 September 2013 at 4:30pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 525 of 646 17 September 2013 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | ||
:-) I know what you mean, and I never would have thought the "drill" approach would appeal to me, but I "went with the flow" because the written approaches to Welsh I've looked at in the past have never really appealed, probably because it looks so unfamiliar on the page, and there is also a bit of an issue with the differences between the various forms of spoken Welsh, and traditional literary Welsh. Si I just decided to take them at their word, and I haven't even looked at the lesson notes (which they only recommend you look at after the lessons, and then as little as possible). And I think it's working, and after all, I see you still remember it correctly! (I guess you were doing the southern course: the northern course teaches "licio" for "like" (not sure how they spell it!). But everyone in Wales (apparently) knows "Dwi'n hoffi coffi", just like everyone "knows" "Mae hen wlad fy nhadau..." (national anthem), whether they speak Welsh or not. If you want some light relief, check out the spoof Welsh class comedy interlude in the S4C teaching Welsh series "HWB". There's a lot on youtube: Y Wers Gymraeg episode 1 EDIT: they even have a spoof within a spoof: what I presume is a take on Welsh teaching TV series in the 1980s...perhaps one has to have lived in Wales in that period to fully appreciate (which I didn't, by the way!): see from about 1.25 on I love that "Dysgu'r iaith yn wyth deg saith!" which I think means "learn the language in '87", when it is presumably set. . EDIT2: On thinking about this again, I'm not sure it's quite fair to call the SSiW approach "drilling", or if it is, then so is Michel Thomas, although perhaps there does seem to be more repetition. I don't know what FSI drills are like, but to me, a "drill" is something like learning verb conjugations, like we used to do at school, or learning the endings of pronouns and adjectives in German, or all the prepositions that take the accusative or whatever. I think what it aims to do is compress the inevitable repetition that a native speaker gets in their early years into a shortish time, so that it comes without having to think, and is aimed only at the spoken language. If that's what people mean by drills, fair enough. But you still have to think on your feet, and construct real meaningful sentences with sometimes complex ideas. It doesn't turn you into an automaton. :-) Sorry, to clog your log. Edited by montmorency on 17 September 2013 at 4:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4842 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 526 of 646 17 September 2013 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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@Solfrid Cristina: I fully agree, Cristina! Besides, I already have two beginner-level languages, so what's the rush!? :)
@montmorency: Well, call it what you like, it just isn't my cup of tea. I want to explore a language and its grammar on my own and not get the vocabulary and structures hammered into my head. For me, understanding is more important than speaking, because - let's be honest - when will I ever need to converse in Welsh? And I absolutely hate learning a language the "natural" way, i.e. without any explanations of the grammar. That makes me dependent on the structures I am taught and doesn't enable me to use the language on my own. In fact, I rather liked what I saw of Colloquial Welsh. It seems to be a good resource for my approach - in sharp contrast to their Irish course. So, sorry, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4842 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 527 of 646 18 September 2013 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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WEDNESDAY, 18 SEPTEMBER 2013
I have to make two minor adjustments to my post from Monday: 1) I'll give Learning Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail another chance. Liammcg seems to be right when he says that it's the best Irish course that's out there. Teach Yourself Irish didn't look that great and the "Spoken World Irish" course from Living Language had very mixed reviews on Amazon. So, I'll just swallow my pride that says: "I don't like this approach", and simply try how far I can get with Learning Irish. The first lessons didn't feel too bad, although the sentences mainly consisted of "There's X here and Y there". Well, I'll just have to bite the bullet! However, Living Language will publish a new "Complete Irish" course in February, which I'm very much looking forward to. Until then, it's Learning Irish for me. 2) I know I wanted to concentrate on the languages I'm already studying, but I had some extra money to spend and thought: "What's the harm in ordering Colloquial Chinese?" Sounds like an addict's behaviour, doesn't it? Well, anyway, the course will arrive in a couple of days, I'll have a look at it, and then I'll decide what do do with it. Until then, I'll concentrate on my other languages unless I give in to temptation and borrow Colloquial Welsh from the library once more. Other than that, I had to read several Italian texts on music theory from the 16th century for my dissertation and it was surprisingly easy. But my passive understanding of Italian is much better than my active skills anyway. And I guess taking Latin in school finally pays off. Additionally, I started reading Wuthering Heights in English and it's an absolutely great read! I'm used to a lot of cultivated boredom in 19th century novels, but this one is an absolutely gripping story - very suspenseful! I already love it although I'm only at chapter IV. Edited by Josquin on 18 September 2013 at 9:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4842 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 528 of 646 21 September 2013 at 11:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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SATURDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 2013
So, this week has been like New Year's Eve all over again: A lot of good resolutions, but as soon as temptation comes they're all gone. I received Colloquial Mandarin Chinese today, had a look at it, and simply couldn't resist. I did the introduction on the sounds of Mandarin and worked through the first dialogue. I think Mandarin is a language that can only be learned properly by listening and repeating a lot! Otherwise there is no chance to master the tones right from the beginning. They are quite easy to recognize and to reproduce in isolated syllables, but the problems arise in connected speech. So, I will have to focus on this a lot, but I guess I won't be the first Westerner to mangle Chinese tones. Consequently, I took Icelandic from my "Studies" list and added Mandarin. I was shortly tempted to move Russian up to "Speaks", but as it hasn't really stood the test yet, that might have been a bit too early. Undoubtedly, out of the languages I'm currently studying, Russian is the one I speak the best, but the standards for stating to "speak" a language are rather strict on this forum, so I'll wait. Other than that, I have been working with Litir do Luchd-ionnsachaidh, Learning Irish, and Genki. Additionally to my love for the Celtic languages, I'm sensing a rising interest in East Asian languages again (which might have been kindled by starting Mandarin), so I did the first two units from Genki. They mainly consisted of grammar repetition, but I also learned some new words that I entered into Anki. It will be quite interesting to watch how my Japanese and Mandarin will influence each other. While there won't be any overlap in grammar, the writing systems might be a critical point. As far as I can tell, there are three possible scenarios: 1) Japanese and Mandarin use different characters for a word, 2) Mandarin uses the simplified character, while Japanese uses the traditional one, or 3) both languages use the same character for the same word, but of course with different readings. So, while Japanese uses kanji only for nouns, adjectives, and verb roots, a Mandarin text consists entirely out of hanzi, which is quite a different reading experience. At the moment, Colloquial Chinese concentrates on pinyin and only gives the character version of the dialogues in the appendix, but they have nevertheless taught a few isolated characters already. I will probably stick to pinyin for the time being and wait how things work out, then I'll decide whether to learn hanzi or not. Last but not least, I have been reading Wuthering Heights a lot. I have reached chapter 9 by now. The story is still very interesting and exciting and it's not too difficult to read -- sometimes a bit challenging but that's okay. It's a truly great book! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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