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Slurred languages vs clear languages | ||
Tags: Comprehension/understanding | Listening | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6438 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 1 of 55 15 May 2012 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I just briefly mentioned this in another thread and rather than hijack that thread, I figured I would start a new discussion about it.
The comment I made was that, to my ears, Spanish and Korean are very "slurred" languages. The example I gave was even if I know all of the words being used in a sentence, I still might not understand the sentence when I hear it. I remember in Spanish class in high school the teacher used to have to slow down the cassette tape playback in order for us to understand everything (the tape player had a speed control). I know some people think this is bad practice. German and Japanese, on the other hand, are very clear sounding languages to my ears. If I know all the words being used in a sentence, I have a good chance of understanding the sentence when I hear it. I briefly (briefly!) dabbled with Thai around 12 years ago. Not considering tones, I didn't have much trouble distinguishing words. I knew and could understand the tones of the words I knew, but I never studied it to the point where I started learning multiple homonyms with different tones. Anyway, it sounded relatively clear to me. If I knew all the words being used in a sentence, I had a good chance of understanding the sentence when I heard it. But Spanish and Korean... no. You guys are all familiar with me (and others) complaining about understanding spoken Korean in other threads, such as in the very popular "I hate Korean" thread where someone mentioned that even after years of daily study, they could only identify a few words on TV or on the radio. Spanish was very similar. The only type of Spanish "slur" I could quantify in high school was that if a word ends with the same vowel sound as the next word begins with, one of them gets dropped (as opposed to Japanese where it would be held for twice as long). But I'm sure there are more, cuz like I said, even if I know all the words being used in a sentence, I still have a hard time understanding the sentence when I hear it. Spanish doesn't do this as bad as Korean, though. But it's the same principle. And both languages are spoken very quickly which doesn't help anything (although I'm pretty sure you could say that about any language). I will also admit the following: 1) English does this LIKE CRAZY, it just doesn't bother me because I already know English. An example "I'm going to go to the store" is pronounced "ahm-in-uh go duh the store." A foreigner who knows the phrase "I'm going to" would probably be confused if he heard someone say "ahm-in-uh". 2) My opinions above may be my native English speaking bias. It's entirely possible that a native speaker of another language might think Japanese and German are slurred and Spanish and Korean are easy to understand. Or maybe not? What do you think? What languages sound slurred to you? What languages sound clear to you? Edited by IronFist on 15 May 2012 at 7:50pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| eilis91 Bilingual Tetraglot Newbie France Joined 4577 days ago 28 posts - 54 votes Speaks: English*, Irish*, French, Italian Studies: German, Yoruba | Message 2 of 55 15 May 2012 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Interesting post. I agree that Spanish sounds slurred, but with French, while it no longer sounds slurred to me, I
used to hear Parisian accents as 'slurred', but not, for example, Lyonnaise accents or other more southern accents. Italian or German have never sounded slurred to me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6440 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 3 of 55 15 May 2012 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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My classifications are similar to yours, but a lot depends on the speaker and regional accent. I've heard some extremely clear Spanish, and casual Japanese can be incredibly slurry.
4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| LaughingChimp Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4700 days ago 346 posts - 594 votes Speaks: Czech* | Message 4 of 55 15 May 2012 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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There are no clear/slurred languages, there are languages with pronunciation similar to your L1 and languages with pronunciation very different from your L1.
5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 5 of 55 15 May 2012 at 8:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think this means you don't understand the phonology of the language. 10 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6438 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 6 of 55 15 May 2012 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
Probably. That isn't really taught in any language class I've ever taken, though, other than like briefly touched upon. I can remember two examples. 1) In Japanese class, our teacher, a native Japanese speaker, told us that the Japanese sound "fu" isn't quite an English F nor is it quite an English H, but somewhere in between. She said the sound a few times and made us repeat it. Ok, now you've got it. 2) In German class, our teacher, a native German speaker, told us that the "ch" in "ich" sounds like a pissed off cat (lol). *Makes a cat hissing noise*. Ok, now you've got it. Do you know why that was really ok, though? Because Japanese and German speakers will understand you the first time you say a new word in their language. If you say "ich" to a German, but your "ch" isn't quite right and instead you say "ish" or "iCCHHHH" (big heavy guttural), they will still understand you ok. And you will understand them when they say it. But this is not the case with Korean. With Spanish, I could usually understand a word spoken by a Spanish speaker in isolation, but not in the middle of a sentence. With Korean, sometimes I couldn't even understand the word in isolation. Edited by IronFist on 15 May 2012 at 8:23pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gabriel Anton Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4604 days ago 10 posts - 26 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Persian, Pashto | Message 7 of 55 15 May 2012 at 8:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
In your estimation; every language makes equal distinction between words/sounds within a sentence or phrase? Such precision! Clearly evidence of the divine. 10 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| zdri Newbie United States Joined 6280 days ago 29 posts - 74 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian | Message 8 of 55 15 May 2012 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I have always thought Spanish sounds faster than other languages. People say it is because I do not
understand most of it, but Spanish sounds faster than other languages which I do not know. This may be a cultural thing rather than something innate in the language. For example, Germans are known to value exactness, and Latin cultures have a reputation for having a relaxed, sociable attitude. I can see how different approaches to life would favor different styles of speaking. This is why I like Pimsleur. I don’t want to learn how to pronounce the word before I hear it being spoken at a natural speed. The correct pronunciation is often different than how the word is actually used, regardless of the language. Occasionally I hear someone who pronounces American English better than typical. They are clear with every word. It sounds alien and unnatural, but it also sounds strangely intelligent and dignified. I think clear pronunciation was more common in the past, or at least that is the impression I get from watching old television. Like cursive writing, people just stopped teaching it and stopped caring. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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