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Listening-reading - more descriptions? | ||
Tags: Listening-Reading (L-R) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6437 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes  Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 1 of 19 21 July 2007 at 6:27am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Other than the recent thread on listening-reading, has anyone seen any discussion of this method?
The closest I could find was some very brief comments; the second comment (the first in English) mentions listening-reading. Does anyone know of any websites/books/etc which talk about something fairly close to siomotteikiru's method (at a minimum, reading a text in a known language while listening to the target one - nothing audio or text only), and if so, where? Does it have another name? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7203 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 2 of 19 21 July 2007 at 6:55am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Although not Miss Hopper's technique, reading an audio book in your native tongue while listening to the target language has been discussed. I like the context that siomotteikiru has put it in as well as her description of phases of acquiring language skills.
Are you looking for annecedotal experience with the method, or variations of it, or a scientific analysis of it, or all of the above and more? As alluded to in the everytongue.com link, I do think that having some body of work that you know and love is a key part of her method. What do we think Mezzofanti talked about? It would also be neat to find some recordings of the simultaneous-listening method she described, particularly if they were in stereo with one language in one ear and the other in the other. Even more so if the recording panned the two languages back and forth through each other. As long as we're looking for stuff, let's find that too. :) Edited by luke on 21 July 2007 at 7:05am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6437 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 3 of 19 21 July 2007 at 7:49am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Thanks for the link to your old thread; I hadn't seen that one before. It's interesting to see different approaches.
All of the above and more.
I'd agree. I'm struggling with Polish, since I find the material I'm using 'ok', but I don't love it.
Yeah, that would be cool. Judging from her answers to my questions, she didn't have the audio synced up between languages, and she'd listen to more than two at once, and just choose to vary her attention. I suspect that choosing which to pay attention to, rather than just having it pan, is critical. From working with the parallel texts, I've found that if I just focus on the English side, and read on the Polish side every once in a while, it's helpful, while if I try to concentrate on both, or even to read most of the corresponding Polish, it goes much more poorly. I suspect this would hold true of audio, and more than that, that having an emphasized language, which would switch by itself, would be highly annoying when it switched when you didn't want it to. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6941 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 4 of 19 21 July 2007 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
True love aside, if the book doesn't torque you off when you read it in English, maybe the problem is not with the book, but with the method itself. Edited by frenkeld on 21 July 2007 at 5:03pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6437 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 5 of 19 21 July 2007 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I used to read books for 12+ hours straight, for days in a row, in English. Unfortunately, it's been nearly a decade since I've done so regularly. My Polish has progressed a -huge- amount; I went from knowing very close to nothing about any Slavic language, much less Polish, to the point where I can pick out a non-trivial amount, though I still don't understand most words. I think I'm still at under 15 hours of study, or under 18 if you count reading grammars. However, it takes me about half an hour to get back into the swing of it each day, and less than that, but still a non-trivial amount of time after breaks of a few hours. Bascially, my other experiences with reading and learning intensively, plus how it feels like it's going suggest that the intensity I'm working at isn't optimal. One of the more important signs is that I'm just not that excited about going back to it. I'm thinking of trying two variations: one, where I -don't- pre-read the book in English, and one where I find literature I like so much that I want to re-read it. The latter will probably be extremely difficult, because I can't think of -anything- I've read that's in that category, and I've probably read somewhere on the order of 10,000 books. I'm hoping that classical literature from non-English traditions in the original will fit into that category, as I've read very close to nothing there, but it's a faint hope. I've never liked re-reading; I was enthusiastic about the first half of the book the first time through, but this time, while I recognize all kinds of brilliant foreshadowing that flew right over my head until I'd read the story once, I'm just not so enthused. Perhaps unfortunately, I'm not good at forcing myself to do intensive study of something unless I'm enthusiastic about it. I'm unaware of any other study method I've tried that's given me anywhere -near- this much progress so quickly. Pimsleur and Assimil don't come close, though I'd have more speaking skills if I used either, but I'd be far behind in comprehension. I'd consider my Polish up to about the level of my Japanese now, and the -only- reason it's behind my Dutch are grammatical complexity and the much lower number of cognates. It's far eclipsed my Persian. (passively speaking; my active Persian and Japanese are better, since I've gone around and used them for basic stuff, and I have basic phrases memorized in both). However, being the kind of Volte that I am, I still want to find how to use it most effectively. I also don't want to judge it negatively without having used it 'as recommended' - that is, extremely intensely. I find the arguments for that being much, much more effective very convincing. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Walshy Triglot Senior Member Australia Joined 6940 days ago 335 posts - 365 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German | Message 6 of 19 21 July 2007 at 11:57pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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As I posted in siomotteikiru's thread, a user called Ardaschir (Alexander Arguelles), who is a professor of humanities, has combined audiobooks and text to great effect. He has written lots of information about his method over a few different threads and has been writing a book for a looong time which has yet to be released. If I recall correctly, he has acheived relative fluency in over twenty languages, including Arabic, Persian, Russian, and Korean.
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| FSI Senior Member United States Joined 6357 days ago 550 posts - 590 votes Speaks: English* | Message 7 of 19 22 July 2007 at 12:12am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Ardaschir's posts are indeed a great resource. I spent a fair amount of time poring over them - specifically those referring to his use of audiobooks and Assimil - in designing my own take on the audiobook/novel/translation method.
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| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6941 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 8 of 19 22 July 2007 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
siomotteikiru's approach calls for "listening-reading" the book about three times, so not pre-reading is only going to help so much, while depriving you of the context that aids learning. As far as not being able to re-read anything, at least not without waiting a few years, it's a disease I am on intimate terms with. (Can you, by the way, go through an Assimil course more than once?) My brief experimentation with "Emil und die Detektive" German audiobook and text indicates that once you read through the whole work once (I did it in German though, not in English), if you loath the idea of going through it from A to Z again, it may still be possible to get motivated to re-read (and/or re-listen) some chapters in random order, especially those that seemed like the most fun the first time around. See if that helps. Edited by frenkeld on 22 July 2007 at 1:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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