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Use of 僕 (ぼく) and 君 (きみ) | ||
Tags: Polite/Informal Forms | Japanese | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6759 days ago 417 posts - 427 votes  Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 1 of 12 25 March 2008 at 2:41pm | IP Logged |
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In Japanese how is 僕 used to refer to oneself? What feelings can it evoke from the person with whom you are communicating? Also can it only be used with plain form (辞書形)?
I heared that it sounds more manly than 私. In fact I heared sissy boys always use 私 as opposed to 僕. However, I have heared that excessive use of 僕 sounds rather immature. Are these true? I would just like someone to clarify these points as second hand information usually contains errors anyway. Also, when talking to superiors, can the use of 僕 be offensive or inappropriate? Similarly, what about 君? I have heared it is better to use it than あなた as あなた sounds cold. Brrrrrr! I once heared that you can't use 君 to adress girls. However, I saw it used to a girl on a movie. Is it inappropriate to call at girl 君? I would just like someone to answer those questions and maybe give a 101 on forms of address when speaking Japanese. Thankyou Luke 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| qklilx Moderator United States Joined 6196 days ago 459 posts - 477 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 12 25 March 2008 at 2:52pm | IP Logged |
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Someone else should be able to give you a better answer but I'll give you a headstart on 僕 since I myself do not hear 君 enough to understand the connotations.
僕 is supposedly for young boys who haven't made it out of high school yet. I hear it all the time from kids, pre-teens, and teens alike. According to some people I know, young adults and those approaching their 30s and 40s use it too, but in my experience they all use 私 and 俺 depending on the situation. 僕's connotations seem to show a degree of manliness if the speaker is younger, but a degree of immaturity as the speaker grows in age. I think it's a pretty complicated concept, and unless you're a competent speaker or a scholar of Japanese sociology or the like, the difference isn't too important unless you want to be rude. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vanityx3 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6471 days ago 331 posts - 326 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Japanese | Message 3 of 12 25 March 2008 at 3:21pm | IP Logged |
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When I used to study Japanese, a lot of the beginners books I had said the same things you said. But I seen in many places you should avoid あなた, most books and people just say to leave it off your sentence since you don't need pronouns in Japanese.
I never really got to learn which form to use either, between 僕or 私 so I normally left pronouns off my sentences. I had one older book that was trying to tell you to use わたくし, when wanting to use I. haha, I wasn't wanting to speak to the emperor. Edited by vanityx3 on 25 March 2008 at 3:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Gon-no-suke Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6444 days ago 156 posts - 191 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Japanese, EnglishC2 Studies: Korean, Malay, Swahili | Message 4 of 12 25 March 2008 at 5:04pm | IP Logged |
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It is hard to give any straight advise on pronouns. When talking about myself (35 year old male), I use all of them - わたくし, わたし, 僕, 俺, and sometimes jokingly わし. My main pronoun is 僕, and I use this one with people I know regardless of social status. To my peers I sometimes use 俺, but it doesn't come natural to me. My friends use 俺 or 僕, and there is a more "manly" feel to 俺. わたし would be slightly odd among male friends, but it is quite normal at more formal situations like work. わたくし is even more formal, but hardly on the level of the emperor.
Adressing other people is best done by their family name - leave out the さん if you are friendly and same age or older. あなた is used, but it carries different connotations depending on the context, and I would suggest you to avoid it until you get more experience in how it is used. I hardly never use 君, sometimes I use it to be slightly condescending in a friendly way - but only to my peers or guys "subordinate" to me. In very loose speech I use お前 or 自分 (Osaka dialect) to friends. I have used お前ら a few times to younger guys on the street when I got a bit angry, but it would be a good idea to avoid that unless you are prepared to take the consequences. I also use 僕 to little boys. Sometimes I use 汝 to my wife ;-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| joshy Diglot Newbie secretagentstyle.com Joined 6329 days ago 19 posts - 19 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Greek, Russian | Message 5 of 12 25 March 2008 at 5:55pm | IP Logged |
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As regards あなた it is best to just use the persons name in the third person when speaking to them. so instead of あなたの犬がかわいいです。you could say 森田さんの犬がかわいいですね。or if it is understood who the subject is, just drop the pronoun completely which is always the best way to not sound too foreign in Japanese. 犬がかわいいですね In English we say YOU YOU YOU all the time, and its fine, but in Japanese it can have a little bit of an impersonal connotation. Edited by joshy on 08 May 2008 at 5:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6778 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 6 of 12 25 March 2008 at 10:13pm | IP Logged |
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Since Japanese doesn't have real pronouns, over-using these generic pronoun-like words doesn't sound good, but in natural Japanese you don't need them much. I almost never use second-person "pronouns" in Japanese.
There's nothing particularly wrong with 僕, though. Japanese men of all ages use it, and 俺 is too gruff to be acceptable in many situations. I think 君 is quite fine for girls, but using the girl's name might be better, as Joshy suggests. Whenever you're going to use a so-called pronoun, though, think about whether it's necessary. Directional verbs and particles often make them unnecessary. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Gon-no-suke Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6444 days ago 156 posts - 191 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Japanese, EnglishC2 Studies: Korean, Malay, Swahili | Message 7 of 12 26 March 2008 at 10:55pm | IP Logged |
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I have to add that I agree with Captain Haddock, only use pronouns for emphasis. Although I use a lot of different pronouns, most of the time I use none at all. In the beginning it might be good practice to speak without using them at all, forcing you to perfect your usage of directional verbs and keigo.
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| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6759 days ago 417 posts - 427 votes Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 8 of 12 27 March 2008 at 3:51pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks for the imput. So, would 僕 even be acceptable when talking to teachers? Also one question was left unanswered. Can it be used with both forms? With both the dictionary form and the masu form? Or only with the dictionary form?
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