TAC 2013, Celtic Team: "Clan Lugus" (Language Learning Log) Language Learning Forum

TAC 2013, Celtic Team: "Clan Lugus"
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tarvos
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Message 161 of 195

29 August 2013 at 12:11pm | IP Logged

Also I think it's written redek nowadays, not redeg.
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Tahl
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Message 162 of 195

29 August 2013 at 1:15pm | IP Logged

Iversen wrote:

Tahl wrote:

Who runs after the cat in my sister's house?
Welsh: Pwy sy'n rhedeg ar ôl y gath yn nhŷ fy chwaer?
Breton: Piv zo o redeg war eul ar ch’azh en ti va c’hoar?

If the parallels are easier to spot in the pronunciation than in the ortography then
Welsh and Breton aren't too far away from each other - if these example sentences are
typical,that is.

I have never studied either of the two, but even I can see some parallels in the
sentences structure to Irish (and presumably Scottish Gaelic), like the use of "who is
at running" (instead of just) "runs", a complex preposition "ar-ol y-gath" at-after
the-cat" ("tar éis an cat" in Irish) and the word "ti" for 'house' in Breton (as in
Irish).

Further, the word for "house" in the Welsh above is actually "tŷ" -- which in the
sentence has undergone a "contact" nasal mutation to "yn nhŷ" because that's what "yn"
(when it's used to mean "in", as here) does to the letter "t." So sounds like the
Breton, Irish, and Welsh words for "house" are identical in sound ("tŷ" sounds like
"tee" in English).
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vermillon
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Message 163 of 195

29 August 2013 at 2:47pm | IP Logged

tarvos wrote:

Also I think it's written redek nowadays, not redeg.

It depends on which spelling norm you're using, I would say (and using the old Assimil is incredible in that respect, the author devised a spelling just for the book, and it was apparently not used at all). Following the phonology of Breton, it wouldn't matter if you wrote g or k, since it would be pronounced voiceless at the end of a word, except in a sandhi where it would necessarily be pronounced voiced (again, regardless of the spelling).

In the most recent spelling reform, they even decided that words like "mat" which can be both an adjective (good) and noun (the good?) would be spelt differently, despite obeying the same phonotactics, as mat and mad.

To continue the discussion, the Cornish textbooks I've seen seemed almost readable, given the little knowledge I have of Breton. I couldn't say the same about Welsh, however...
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montmorency
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Message 164 of 195

29 August 2013 at 3:54pm | IP Logged

Thought I had read this somewhere, and it appears to be confirmed in Wikipedia, that
"k" used to be used in Welsh:

(see "Orthography")

Welsh Language - Wikipedia

(Sorry if that's already been mentioned).

As Iversen suggests I think, it is similarities in the spoken languages that are more
significant, given the lack of standardisation in orthography until relatively recently
(for languages in general). Tantalising that we have to depend on written clues for no-
longer-living or barely-living or only-newly-revived languages (in order to try to work
out how they were spoken).

Edited by montmorency on 31 August 2013 at 2:46am
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Maïwenn
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Message 165 of 195

01 September 2013 at 7:00pm | IP Logged

Teango wrote:

Drunken Scallywags

Apr - Maïwenn (Breton)

Please could you all leave a quick message here on our team thread to confirm who's still in?

Aye! Apologies for letting the Eddu whisky get the best of me. ;) From now on, I'll work on drinking in the language
instead. Cheers to all of you wonderful people who have kept at your studies!
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tarvos
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Message 166 of 195

01 September 2013 at 7:12pm | IP Logged

vermillon wrote:

tarvos wrote:

Also I think it's written redek nowadays, not redeg.

It depends on which spelling norm you're using, I would say (and using the old Assimil
is incredible in that respect, the author devised a spelling just for the book, and it
was apparently not used at all). Following the phonology of Breton, it wouldn't matter
if you wrote g or k, since it would be pronounced voiceless at the end of a word,
except in a sandhi where it would necessarily be pronounced voiced (again, regardless
of the spelling).

In the most recent spelling reform, they even decided that words like "mat" which can
be both an adjective (good) and noun (the good?) would be spelt differently, despite
obeying the same phonotactics, as mat and mad.

To continue the discussion, the Cornish textbooks I've seen seemed almost readable,
given the little knowledge I have of Breton. I couldn't say the same about Welsh,
however...

I know that, Assimil writes it with "k" (the Kervella one).

Speaking of Breton, someone visited my Interpals profile yesterday, and he had Breton
listed, so I sent him a message in Breton. Got a reply!!!
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Teango
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Message 167 of 195

01 September 2013 at 7:14pm | IP Logged

Maïwenn wrote:

Teango wrote:

Drunken Scallywags

Apr - Maïwenn (Breton)

Please could you all leave a quick message here on our team thread to confirm who's still in?

Aye! Apologies for letting the Eddu whisky get the best of me. ;) From now on, I'll work on drinking in the language instead. Cheers to all of you wonderful people who have kept at your studies!

Aye, y'scurvy landlubber...tha' be some fine whisky. Good to have ye aboard again! :D
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montmorency
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Message 168 of 195

02 September 2013 at 12:43pm | IP Logged

Not sure if this site is well known, but a list of many dictionaries. I have chosen the Welsh-related ones in
this link, but just take away the #Welsh tag to get the full list:

Welsh-related online dictionaries

One link seems to be Cornish-Welsh:Welsh-cornish:
Kernewek Kembrek: Cymraeg Cernyweg

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