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5 years of 日本語 TAC 13 桜/Schnitzel | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5988 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 305 of 436 30 July 2013 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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A bit more info about the layout of the N2 Kanzen Master (which may or may not help with N3) now I'm typing at the comfort of a real keyboard rather than my phone!
N2 is all in Japanese, although looking at the N3 scans on the White Rabbit website, I see it has a little bit of English. The meatiest section of the book has all the expressions grouped by meaning. Each chapter covers around 5 or 6 expressions. There are a few hints as to the meanings of the expressions. So the first chapter is called ～とき・～直後に which already tells us we're looking at expressions showing timing. We then have a couple of sentences under the heading 復習 (revision) which highlight a couple of expressions you should know already from N5,N4 or N3, which have similar meanings to the expressions taught in the chapter. In this case there is a sentence with ～とき and another sentence with the pattern ～と～た. We then have a section for each grammar point, which includes first of all the meaning of the point, which is given in Japanese, for example the meaning of the point ～際（に） is given as ～とき（硬い言い方）, which should hopefully be self explanatory. This is followed by a few example sentences in Japanese. Below this appears the paperclips symbol which shows you which noun/verb/adjective forms etc can be used with the expression (but if you already know how to use ～とき you should be able to figure this out for yourself!) and finally there is an exclamation mark symbol which is used to give more detailed information about things you should watch out for (so for this example it tells you the expression is mainly used with verbs or nouns expressing actions, and tends to be used in formal situations rather than every day situations). I actually quite like that the example sentences don't come with translations, because that way figuring out what they mean forms part of the process of learning the grammar point. Occasionally the explanations in the textbook alone are not enough for me to pinpoint the meaning of the expression, but in this case I'll just refer to a grammar dictionary, or, if I can, a native speaker! The only thing I'm really not very good at is turning the information in the book into active knowledge (although the lessons I did with Japonin, which use Kanzen Master N2 as their textbook, were helpful in this respect). Once you get through this biggest chunk of the book, there are still more chapters covering lots of useful things. It's mainly set up from the point of view of things which might trip you up in the exam, but even so it's nice to have a chapter where you can look at all the different expressions using もの and こと that have already been covered in the book. There are also a few chapters going over the exercise where you have to pick the right expressions to fit into a piece of writing, and these cover other useful points such as conjunctions, こ/そ/あ/ど expressions, passive, giving/receiving and は/が. I tend to think of these things as the "real" grammar, which seems to be sidelined by pages and pages of the expressions and sentence patterns which seem to dominate most Japanese textbooks at intermediate level and above. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5988 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 306 of 436 31 July 2013 at 10:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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Why is it that no sooner do I settle back down into my language project that the wanderlust bug bites again? It's true there are so many interesting, beautiful, and not to mention useful, languages out there that it pains me to have to limit myself so much. But the bottom line is there is only so much language study I can do in a day.
A couple of days ago at work, for the first time in 10 years of living in Wales, somebody actually addressed me in Welsh. They only asked if I spoke Welsh, which I at least understood and could reply "no, sorry I don't". I've no objection to learning Welsh. I love languages and this may be my only opportunity to learn a language in a country where it is actually spoken! However, I've never thought I would stay in Wales long enough to make it worthwhile learning the language. Although I did wonder whether I should perhaps do a 6WC in Welsh this August. And then I remembered I'm supposed to be working on my French and will be away on holiday for two weeks of the challenge anyway. And then I remembered that I'm still all fired up and motivated to improve my reading in Japanese. And then I read stifa's log and desperately wanted to be back in Berlin, ideally learning some more German at the same time! If only the days were 40 hours long. I might be able to fit it all in then! The thing is, I've noticed that if I am more relaxed in my approach, I somehow manage to perform better. I'm not putting many hours into French at the moment, but I show up to my lessons and enjoy myself and somehow manage to speak the language. I am deliberately trying to not do too much in Japanese as well and it's paying off. Although I'm focusing on kanji and reading and am starting to see a slight improvement in ease of reading, I've also managed to have a couple of satisfying conversations over the last couple of weeks too. I know that if I tried to pile in more languages I'd lose the relaxed approach, things would get stressful and I wouldn't make as much progress. So I just need to pack the wanderlust away, relax and enjoy what I'm doing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5190 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 307 of 436 31 July 2013 at 11:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think when you start pushing the envelope to get the best results for the time put in you end up focusing on
what you don't know instead of the fun and the new stuff you are learning. I'm gonna take your relaxed approach to heart for the rest of the summer and just do what I want to do and not worry. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5988 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 308 of 436 02 August 2013 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think it might be time to retire my log.
Keeping a log has served me well up until now for many reasons. I really appreciate the feedback I've received over the years from passionate, knowledgeable and motivated language learners. It's also been great to have some space here where I can ruminate over the hows and whys of my study activities and try to tread out a path that suits me. But as I have mentioned in a few previous posts, this year I have mainly been struggling with what I want to study. There's not much point in treading a new path when I have no idea where I want to go, particularly as in many respects I am quite content with where I am already. I'm not suddenly going to drop languages from my life. Japanese in particular is as much a part of my identity as music, arithmetic, or riding my bike. But while I don't have any overarching goal to strive for, I think extended ruminating in my log, in English, is neither productive nor interesting. So this is it, for now! I will continue to follow the logs of my TAC team mates and offer advice and encouragement where I can. And of course, if things change, I may well come out of retirement again! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4853 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 309 of 436 03 August 2013 at 4:37am | IP Logged | ||
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As someone who thought about ending his log before, I completely understand. I hope you do figure out which direction you want to take. And from a selfish standpoint, I hope that you do continue to offer me advice and encouragement, because I have certainly learned from it in the past.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5190 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 310 of 436 03 August 2013 at 8:38am | IP Logged | ||
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You could just post in your target language if you wanted. Others do that. Oh well I will miss you =(. Feel free to throw a post up now and then for any reason at all.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5988 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 311 of 436 03 August 2013 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks guys! And don't worry, I have no imminent plans of quitting HTLAL. As much as I love the idea that I've kept some kind of record since I was almost a complete beginner, I just feel that I haven't really had anything new to add to my log for a while and I'm getting fed up of repeating the same old thing both internally and on screen! I have a tendency to overanalyse pretty much everything I do already, but the desire to then maintain a record of it just encourages far too much introspection.
Logging is great when you are still trying to work out how to study, what suits you as an individual, and keep yourself on track. Well, I think I've figured out the first two by now, and as I've said many times before, Japanese is just part of my life now. I guess the language learning process really is just a matter of studying from scratch until you can start actually using the language. Then continue using the language while studying intermittently until you are either totally bored or totally awesome. But I don't need to spend the next five years going on about how I had another conversation, watched another TV show, read another book, did some more conventional study until I got fed up of Anki again... and I'm sure you guys don't need to read about it either. I think I've even now shot past the stage where I can reliably recommend easier media for people who are just breaking into native materials, and anything else is just a matter of taste. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4671 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 312 of 436 06 August 2013 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | ||
Thank you for taking the time to go through the Kanzen Master N2 book and explain it. It looks to be quite similar to the N3 one I have. Having now been through the So- Matome book (briefly, at a rapid pace) I think I can see a sort of logical progression. Minna No Nihongo and similar "traditional" grammar books explain everything in some detail. So-Matome removes some of the crutches and leaves you a bit of work to do to figure out how things work. Kanzen Master takes this further and burns what was left of the crutches and leaves you to piece everything together. In addition, the amount of Japanese explanation increases considerably. That's probably good for me, in that it will force me to dig out the nuggets that are buried in there. It'll be slower going than I'm used to, but maybe it'll stick better if I have to work to unearth the information. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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