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Italian verb ending question (Basic) | ||
Tags: Verbs/Conjugation | Italian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| bobby1413 Newbie United Kingdom Joined 4199 days ago 32 posts - 32 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian | Message 1 of 6 12 June 2013 at 7:31pm | IP Logged |
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Learning about verbs at the minute and getting the hang of it.
On assimil, there is a sentence: "Signora, dove scende" Scendere is the verb and as a result I thought it would be "scendi" as it's saying where will YOU get off? Ending in an "e", seems to me wrong as it's not saying He or She. What am I missing here? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5229 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 2 of 6 12 June 2013 at 7:45pm | IP Logged |
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I believe that the formal second person, Lei, takes a third person verb, much like Usted in Spanish or Sie in German.
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| bobby1413 Newbie United Kingdom Joined 4199 days ago 32 posts - 32 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian | Message 3 of 6 12 June 2013 at 8:09pm | IP Logged |
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Of course! Can't believe I didn't see that!
Thanks. Also, if I accidentally used the informal version would there be a reaction? I'm learning so would guess with broken Italian I would get away with it. But would Italians get annoyed with one another if they were informal when they shouldn't be? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5229 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 4 of 6 12 June 2013 at 8:27pm | IP Logged |
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We'll need an Italian for that.
Some sources online suggest usage of the informal second person with a stranger would be considered rude on first meeting. Wikipedia gives the following information: "Lei is normally used in formal settings, or with strangers, and it is used reciprocally between adults: the usage may not be reciprocal when young people address older strangers or otherwise respected people. Students are addressed with tu by their teachers until the end of high school with few exceptions, and usually with Lei in universities. Students might use tu with their teachers in elementary school, but switch to Lei from middle school. "Currently, people tend to address strangers of their own age using the informal tu until about thirty years of age. Tu is also the pronoun of first choice to address strangers on the Internet. In some professional circles (notably among journalists and lawyers), the tu-form is used immediately even on first meeting, as a sign of recognition of a colleague's status as a member of the same profession. In written correspondence, however, the pronoun will usually be capitalized (Tu) to express also respect towards somebody who is not a close friend." Pimsleur says the following: "It is very important to pay attention to the context and to our addressee, as it is extremely easy to make a mistake and be considered rude or not polite enough, especially by people who really pay attention to etiquette. Indeed, there are some tacit social rules that should be respected. "1.When using the "Lei" form, the addressee could invite his conversation partner to use the "tu" form if he so desires. In this case, switching to the "tu" form is an urbane choice, but taking the liberty of doing it when not asked may be considered not polite. 2.Speakers will use the same courtesy form to address each other. If coetaneous, they may use the "tu" form, but if they want/must maintain a certain level of formality, they will stick to the "Lei" form. 3.A mismatching combination of courtesy forms can occur between an adult and a child or a younger person. In this case, the "tu" form is used by adults addressing younger people, while the "Lei" form is used by young people addressing adults. 4.Sometimes, the courtesy form is used to stress cold politeness between speakers, so as to maintain the social gap, more than to show deference." Edited by ScottScheule on 12 June 2013 at 8:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vogue Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4255 days ago 109 posts - 181 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: Ukrainian | Message 5 of 6 12 June 2013 at 11:13pm | IP Logged |
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Yes, scende is the formal.
From my experience it's not something to fret about too much, especially as a learner you will get a lot of slack. Though, when in doubt use the formal. The other person may tell you to use tu right away. More in depth, I'm in my early 20s, but people well into their 30's have all told me to use the 'tu' form right away. In general, if someone is in your rough age group (I'd say I use the tu form with people in their early 40s even), tu is appropriate. UNLESS, they're a stranger on the street and not someone with whom you're "meeting," then the formal form is generally used. When I run into people who are significantly older (60+) I always use the formal, and so far haven't been corrected. However, as I said, in general there's a margin of error learners are allowed. However, instead of making your margin of error with the 'tu' you can make it with the 'lei' form (when I first came to italy and was stumbling through conjugations I just stuck with the 'lei' form, even with my friends). of course, an Italian can maybe tell you all the ins and out of the cultural rules, but this has been my experience as a foreigner. N.B. In Spain the tu form is almost exclusively used, but in Honduras the usted form is almost exclusively used. Just an interesting study about formal/informal. Edited by vogue on 12 June 2013 at 11:21pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 6 of 6 13 June 2013 at 12:13pm | IP Logged |
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Indeed, it even varies between languages. As someone who was used to French formality, I found it very strange being immediately addressed as "tu" by a waitress in an Italian restaurant. Italians generally seem to use "tu" quite readily, although I've spent very little time in Italy and haven't developed a good sense for it so I'd err towards the side of caution and use Lei if I were asking a stranger for directions or that sort of thing.
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