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Learning Persian without Arabic?

  Tags: Farsi/Persian | Arabic
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages Post Reply
35 messages over 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5  Next >>
musique
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musicianer.blogspot.
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Speaks: EnglishC2, Persian*, French
Studies: Modern Hebrew, Yiddish

 
 Message 17 of 35
21 September 2011 at 7:03am | IP Logged 
As a native Farsi speakers, I can say that, in a more classical literature, you will find
the least usage of any Arabic words, however when you come to more contemporary written
texts, the Arabization is increased, and of course is even easier for me as a native
speaker. However, one should note, that the regularizaion academies in Iran are trying
hard to put an end to this Arabization and Farsicize all the words of Arab origin in use.
Briefly, knowing Arabic, will help you a lot in understanding a colloquial Farsi, plus,
being able to read a modern text, newspapers and academic publishments, all the same,
this does not require an immense mastery of Arabic, but a basic gist of how the roots and
their derivations work. :)
good luck learning Farsi, you will enjoy the endless world of a fine literature
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William Camden
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 Message 18 of 35
21 September 2011 at 4:02pm | IP Logged 
This is at somewhat of a tangent, but I was reading Betty Mahmoody's Not Without My Daughter, an account of her escape from Iran. The many Persian phrases in the book were in many cases similar to Turkish, which like Persian has many Arabic borrowings and has also taken some vocabulary from Persian.
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aldous
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 Message 19 of 35
26 September 2011 at 11:37pm | IP Logged 
musique wrote:
As a native Farsi speakers, I can say that, in a more classical literature, you will find
the least usage of any Arabic words, however when you come to more contemporary written
texts, the Arabization is increased, and of course is even easier for me as a native
speaker. However, one should note, that the regularizaion academies in Iran are trying
hard to put an end to this Arabization and Farsicize all the words of Arab origin in use.
Briefly, knowing Arabic, will help you a lot in understanding a colloquial Farsi, plus,
being able to read a modern text, newspapers and academic publishments, all the same,
this does not require an immense mastery of Arabic, but a basic gist of how the roots and
their derivations work. :)
good luck learning Farsi, you will enjoy the endless world of a fine literature


Which classical literature are you thinking of? It is true there is very little Arabic in the Shahnameh, and I've seen poems by Hafez that had almost no Arabic loanwords. But if you're suggesting that classical Persian in general doesn't have much Arabic, that would be mistaken. But you don't have to take my word for it. See this series of articles in the Encyclopaedia Iranica:

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/arabic-index

Here is an excerpt:

Quote:
After the 6th/12th century, the frequent use of adorned and rhymed style in Persian prose led to the introduction of numerous Arabic words. The proportion of Arabic words in Persian was about thirty percent in the 4th/10th century and reached some fifty percent in the 6th/12th (Lazard, “Les emprunts,” p. 61). These lexical elements were followed by a number of Arabic grammatical elements, the high frequency of which in turn affected the Persian phonological system.


As for whether the influence of Arabic is greater in contemporary Persian than in classical, I don't know. I wonder though, if part of the reason it seems that way is the change in the verbs. There are a number of verbs where the antiquated form is a simple verb that is native to Persian (e.g. porsidan, "to ask") that in the contemporary language has been replaced by a compound verb using an Arabic noun coupled with the verb kardan (e.g. so'āl kardan, "to do/make question").

Your comment about the regularization academies surprises me. If you're talking about the Farhangestān (the Persian language academy), then you must be mistaken. It is not trying to reduce the Arabic element in Persian. Is there some other academy that you're referring to?

There was a movement to reduce the Arabic component in Persian, inspired by the Turkish language reform movement in Republican Turkey. But that was in the 1930s. It would be strange for the current Islamic government in Tehran, which is in charge of the language academy, to try to reduce Arabic borrowings.

The language academy does try to discourage borrowings from European languages and proposes Persian neologisms as replacements, kind of like the Académie française.
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orion
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 Message 20 of 35
25 December 2011 at 7:42pm | IP Logged 
I hope this is not too much of a derail, but I was wondering whether a speaker of modern Persian can understand the original texts of Rumi. I really enjoy the English translations. I have been toying with taking up Persian and this would be one of the perks in my opinion. Thanks!
1 person has voted this message useful



erinserb
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 Message 21 of 35
30 December 2011 at 11:35pm | IP Logged 
Does anybody here have a good familiarity with this language? I know that it is actually an Indo-European language, rather than Arabic/Semitic group. I am looking at work in map librarianship/cartography. There is an acute need for those who have a proficiency in this language, particularly with the National Geospatial Agency in the U.S.

Not only that, it seems to be an intriguing language, with a unique script. If there are problems with Iran in the future (with the West), this language will be high on the list of essential/strategic languages.

Does DLI have open-source coursework?

Any help is always greatly appreciated.
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erinserb
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 Message 22 of 35
30 December 2011 at 11:40pm | IP Logged 
Sorry to post so soon, but is anyone familiar with a new Persian course "Beginner's Persian with 2 Audio CDs (Hippocrene Beginner's Series) (Persian Edition) [Paperback]?
1 person has voted this message useful



lichtrausch
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 Message 23 of 35
31 December 2011 at 6:35am | IP Logged 
erinserb wrote:

If there are problems with Iran in the future (with the West), this language will be high on the list of essential/strategic languages.

The future is now.
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erinserb
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 Message 24 of 35
31 December 2011 at 7:47am | IP Logged 
Yes, quite true! The future is now :-)


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