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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Matthew12 Newbie United States Joined 4326 days ago 13 posts - 20 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, German | Message 1 of 4 14 May 2013 at 12:29am | IP Logged |
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1. When do you use machen instead of tun?
2. When do you use dass or das? 3. When speaking of the past, is it more common to use the preterite (ich singte) or the past perfect (ich habe gesingen)? 4. Wenn vs wann? Denn vs dann? If anyone has a good website about prepositions and particles (am, als, im, um, etc.) it would be appreciated! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| osoymar Tetraglot Pro Member United States Joined 4737 days ago 190 posts - 344 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Spanish, French Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 4 14 May 2013 at 8:15pm | IP Logged |
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I would recommend getting a good grammar book. Machen vs. tun and preterite vs. past
perfect are somewhat subtle, but dass/das, wenn/wann, denn/dann are all completely unrelated to each other and in no way interchangeable. Also, you had the bad fortune of picking an irregular verb for question #3- it should be ich sang / ich habe gesungen. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Konanen Heptaglot Newbie GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4260 days ago 11 posts - 12 votes Speaks: German, Turkish*, English, French, Serbo-Croatian, Latin, Arabic (Egyptian) Studies: Arabic (Gulf), Italian, Russian | Message 3 of 4 20 May 2013 at 4:36pm | IP Logged |
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Well, most teachers in Germany will tell you that the past perfect is used in colloquial speech and the preterite is used when writing.
This is true for Southern and Middle Germany, where the preterite is nearly never used in highly colloquial speech. However, in Northern Germany, preterite and past perfect are distinctive tempora and frequently used in different contexts, which is: For the preterite: Actions that are completed are denoted with the preterite E.g.: "I laughed" - "Ich lachte" → No further logical impact into the present. For the past perfect: Actions that have begun in the past but are still affecting the here and now. E.g.: "It has rained" - "Es hat geregnet" → And now the grass is still wet. The Standard High German recognises the distinction thereof. Edited by Konanen on 20 May 2013 at 4:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Kyle Corrie Senior Member United States Joined 4830 days ago 175 posts - 464 votes | Message 4 of 4 21 May 2013 at 5:14am | IP Logged |
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#2 - dass vs. das
First of all, 'das' can be the definite article of neuter nouns. 'das Rad', 'das Mädchen', or 'das Baby'. 'das' can also be used as a relative pronoun that references a neuter noun. Ex: Das Kind, das auf dem Bett sitzt, heißt Matthew. In that example, the second 'das' is acting as a relative pronoun and references the noun 'das Kind'. In English it could look like... 'The child WHO is sitting on the bed is called Matthew.' as well as 'The child THAT is sitting on the bed is called Matthew.' This also works with other genders such as 'der Hund'. Ex: Der Hund, der auf dem Bett sitzt, heißt Roscoe. Now the relative pronoun relates to the masculine noun 'der Hund' and must reflect that. You must also be aware that the relative pronoun can be in a certain case (such as the accusative), while still referencing the original noun, but must be declined if it is not the subject of the clause. Ex: Der Hund, den du gestern gesehen hast, ist jetzt tot. (The dog WHICH/THAT you saw yesterday is dead now.) Now 'den' is still a relative pronoun, but it is declined into the accusative case because it is the direct object of the clause. Who was doing the seeing (Subject: du/you)? What did you see yesterday? The dog. Relative pronouns will always introduce a subordinate clause and that's why you have the strange word order. Now, 'dass' is what's called a 'subordinating conjunction'. A subordinating conjunction connects the main clause with the subordinate clause with no reference to a previous noun (hence, the lack of a relative pronoun). You may also occasionally see 'dass' written as 'daß'. However, it is now considered incorrect it it's typically only in older texts or written by people that either don't know better or simply don't want to conform. Ex: Ich weiß, dass du es schaffen kannst. (I know THAT you can do it.) You can see that 'dass' is a conjunction combining two clauses. The subject of the main clause would be 'ich' and 'dass' obviously makes no reference to it. You can also omit this altogether and ignore the switched word order. Ex: Ich weiß, du kannst es schaffen. (dass) I know THAT he can't be trusted. (das) The child THAT I babysit is a real pain-in-the-neck. (das Kind) (dass) Eric thinks THAT he'll be here tomorrow. (das) The wheel THAT blew on my bike is now worthless. (das Rad) ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------- #3 Part 1 - wann 'wann' will always reference a concrete point in time. So always use it when you're forming a question. Ex: Wann wachst du auf? Um 7 Uhr morgens. Ex: Wann hast es gekauft? Gestern. Ex: Wann hast du den Unterschied zwischen 'wann' und 'wenn' gelernt? Gerade jetzt. So, as you can see... when forming questions - always use 'wann'. #3 Part 2 - wenn 'wenn' in German correlates to the English 'when' and 'if'. If you think about it, they can be used interchangeably quite easily. Ex: Wenn ich Millionär wär, fahre ich einen Mercedes! (If I were a millionaire I'd drive a Mercedes!) Be mindful though that in English it's very common to say 'if' when you actually mean 'whether'. Ex: Ich weiß nicht, ob er kommt. (I don't know WHETHER/IF he's coming or not.) So if you CAN use 'whether' in English, then you MUST use 'ob' in German. #3 part 3 - als 'als' can also equate to 'when' in English, but only when it references a specific point in the past. Ex: When I was a kid I had a dog named Roscoe. (Als ich ein Kind war, hatte ich einen Hund, der Roscoe heißt.) Be aware that when you use 'als' in that manner it will always setup a subordinate clause and that will change the word order. 'als' can also equate to the English 'than' or 'as' in certain situations. ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------- Hopefully that helped at least a little. Feel free to ask if you need anything else. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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