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L2 novel vs translation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| mrpootys Groupie United States Joined 5609 days ago 62 posts - 69 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 17 of 25 02 January 2012 at 7:43am | IP Logged | ||
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Im reading vom winde verwehnt right now, even though its originally an English language novel. Yes perhaps some of the essence of the original will escape the translation, but nonetheless I enjoy the practice along side a good story. I can although attest to the fact that some translations are just awful and take many liberties. I read die verwandlung originally in German and afterwards in English, only to be utterly amazed at how off the English translations were.
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| Lucky Charms Diglot Senior Member Japan lapacifica.net Joined 6947 days ago 752 posts - 1711 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German, Spanish | Message 18 of 25 03 January 2012 at 11:48am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm a little embarassed to admit that so far I've been too intimidated and easily discouraged to progress very far with any extensive L2 reading program, even though so
many polyglots whom I admire seem to swear by it. Maybe I should make that a New Year's resolution, or at least participate in the next Tadoku challenge. So far, I've found it much more comfortable and enjoyable to read an L2 book (whether native or translated) that I'm already familiar with from my native language, the same way I'd rather watch a movie in L2 that I've already seen before with L1 audio or subtitles. As for getting bored with the material, I don't find this to be a problem because 1) I only take the trouble to re-read a book or re-watch a movie in L2 that I found sufficiently interesting in the first place, and 2) I always get more out of a second reading/viewing (details I missed, foreshadowing, etc.), especially when it's in a non-native language because I tend to read more slowly and focus more on each word. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 19 of 25 03 January 2012 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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About the quality of translations:
The thing that bothers me most with translations is precisely the thing that makes them interesting for people who don't care a damn about the original version and its language. A translation is mostly made by a native speaker who tries his/her best to smooth out anything that might reveal that you ae dealing with a translation. Some are more keen than others to remove factual references to country specific items, but they all try to make something that could have been an original work. And the readers judge them on the result, not on the fidelity and loyalty towards the original work. This means that you normally shouldn't be overtly suspicious about translations of books and magazines - they are about as good or bad as the stuff their translators write from scratch. In school you write translations from L2 to L1 to prove 1) that you understand your target language perfectly, 2) to show that you can write beautiful texts in your native language with more or less the same meaning as the original. What happens in practice is that you are so keen not to forget anything in the original that you include information in your translation which never would be an issue in an original text (which makes the translation longer than necessary), AND you try frantically to express something from the original which is difficult to express in your base language - and then your text becomes stilted and artificial. Good translators know how to take shortcuts when necessary, but that's an art which must be learnt, and it is not just a qustion of knowing your target language well. PS: subtitles on TV are made by people who apparently are paid to be fast and koncise, but not necessarily knowledgeable about the subject. However when they are there I can turn down the volume and listen to other things while watching TV. So I like my subtitles and wouldn't give them up. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| birthdaysuit Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4815 days ago 48 posts - 101 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Swedish | Message 20 of 25 03 January 2012 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Whilst I voted for translation, I don't think the answer is as straightforward as just
one or the other. It really depends on why you're reading the material, for starters. Are you reading it because you're sick of reading in your native language? Or perhaps you are trying to build your vocabulary and would prefer not to have to use parallel reading? Or maybe you would like to reread your favourite novels in your target language to see how they differ from the original? Whatever the reason, I believe it influences your choice of first novel. Secondly, it's interesting how many people mention meanings being lost in translation as the reason for choosing to read native L2 material. Let's be clear about something - even when a text is read in its native language, we don't always know what the writer meant, and much depends on interpretation (lest, of course, we're talking about certain non-fiction texts, where the material is factual). Where it doesn't, the text is more plot driven, in which case (unless the translation is completely way off) all the important details are left in, so you shouldn't feel as though you're missing out. I suppose that is also a deciding factor - whether you are reading for the stylistic aspects of the text, or for the plot. I wouldn't be so dismissive of translations, either. There are A LOT of people who, without them, wouldn't be able to enjoy all of those texts we have come to love over the years. Though Russian is on my list of languages to learn, there was no way in hell I was waiting until I was "fluent" in it to read Crime and Punishment, one of my favourite novels. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tea oolong Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4414 days ago 28 posts - 33 votes Studies: Korean* | Message 21 of 25 27 October 2013 at 3:29am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm reading a memoir now in my L2. Should I bother to study the words that I had to look
up? If so, after each chapter? Or wait until I've finished the novel and just jot the meaning in the meanwhile? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5530 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 25 27 October 2013 at 3:44am | IP Logged | ||
I'm not sure why your question appears at the end of a very old thread on a vaguely related subject. Was that deliberate, or a problem with the forum software? You'll have more luck posting questions like this in the Advice Center room. Anyway, to answer your question, I'd say keep reading, and look the words up later. The only exceptions might be words you see over and over again, but still don't understand, and when you can look up words in a popup dictionary with the touch of a finger. To respond to the original thread, my first book was a non-fiction history book written by a bilingual writer from Quebec. This was nice, because he seemed to make heavy use of those parts of French which aren't too alien to an English speaker. I've since seen this in a couple of other books from Quebec—the French is very natural, ordinary French, but it seems strangely easy and familiar. After that, though, I spent quite a lot of time reading French translations of my favorite English books. This was quite convenient, because (1) I knew I really liked each book, enough to have read it a half-dozen times in English, and (2) I knew the story well enough that I could learn lots of words without using the dictionary. My favorite moments were when I spotted the occasional translation error by comparing the French version with my memory of the English text. That said, I also read lots of native French books, which are also awesome. So if I had to vote, I'd say, "Yes, all of the above, in as a great a volume as possible, oh, and can I have some TV, too?" As for choosing the first book, well, try several and one should reach out and suck you in, and then who cares whether it was an "appropriate" choice? 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tea oolong Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4414 days ago 28 posts - 33 votes Studies: Korean* | Message 23 of 25 27 October 2013 at 4:22am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for your response, emk. I was mulling over whether plug vocabulary in Quizlet, chapter after chapter. Or go straight though it and pick and choose. I want to take a ten book challenge. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4666 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 24 of 25 27 October 2013 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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In Brazilian Portuguese, more often than not:
a) modern original works are more in line with how people actually talk (colloquial Brazilian Portuguese is often used in dialogs) b) translated works are written in overly formal written language (so even children books feature grammatic structures which sound obsolete and extremely formal in speech). In American English, that is not the case though.Translated children books do not force THEE, WHOM, SHAN'T, IT IS I, BETTER THAN WE onto children. Edited by Medulin on 27 October 2013 at 9:11pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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