Language learning method: input welcome (Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies) Language Learning Forum

Language learning method: input welcome
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Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies

senor_smile
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6309 days ago
110 posts - 115 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Latin, Russian

Message 1 of 8

28 May 2012 at 3:52am | IP Logged

Here is a recent posting I did of my method to learn Russian. If you find any particular
recommendations to the my specific strategy, please feel free to post. If you find
anything I've posted helpful, even better!

http://mustlearneverylanguage.blogspot.com/2012/05/how-im-le arning-russian.html
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6520 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, Finnish^C1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

Message 2 of 8

28 May 2012 at 7:18am | IP Logged

One remark:in mnemonics, be careful with focusing too much on unstressed syllables. There's сторона, but there's also the word старый, for example. It also doesn't sound like "star" in the plural (стóроны).
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Wulfgar
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4594 days ago
404 posts - 791 votes

Speaks: English*

Message 3 of 8

28 May 2012 at 7:21am | IP Logged

I got an error with the link you posted. Did you mean
http://mustlearneverylanguage.blogspot.com/2012/05/how-im-le arning-russian.html
?

I have some comments. First, you list Princeton but don't list how you're using it. I find it a little confusing that you're
using both Princeton and Assimil, so some explanation could clear that up.

I don't see anything regarding conversation or writing. Maybe this is less of a method and more of what you're doing at
the moment, but these things probably need to be addressed now too.

Your listening appears to be inadequate, if all you're doing is listening to an anki lesson several times a day. You need
more content, imo.

I didn't really get why you have a wordlist. If you are waiting until you encounter a word to look it up in your list, enter it
in anki, strike it off, etc, then I don't see why you couldn't just use an online dictionary. If you're learning the words out of
context, which is a bad idea imo, I can see your need, but I got the impression you weren't doing that.
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6520 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

Message 4 of 8

28 May 2012 at 10:19am | IP Logged

Made it clickable :)
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senor_smile
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6309 days ago
110 posts - 115 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Latin, Russian

Message 5 of 8

28 May 2012 at 4:38pm | IP Logged

Thanks for the comments.

@Serpent: that's a good point. This initial posting was sort of a brain dump. I find
that once I've used a mnemonic to remember a word, I have no problems modifying
pronunciation based on stress. I will detail the section on mnemonics a little more.

@Wulfgar: I did list a few resources that I'm not really actively using yet. From
the little that I've used the Princeton course, I've already found that my Russian
friends don't really use some of the words I've learned. That with the strange way
that they present the grammar is making me question the course. It's very lengthy,
and so would seem optimal, but I'm thinking that by the time I go three the three
different Assimil courses along with a few thousand nouns and verbs, I should be able
to just start reading and conversing for language progress.

It sounds like I also need to explain why I'm using the resources I am a little
better. I am "preemptively" using the wordlist to learn the most common vocab in
order of frequency, such that when I encounter these words in a magazine or online, I
will already have initially learned the word. I should also say that as much as
possible, I learn single vocabulary words in two directions; i.e. from Russian to
English, and from English to Russian. I used Anki for around three thousand
sentences, all from Japanese to English. I eventually found that the deck became more
and more difficult, and I eventually had a ton of cards that I couldn't really
remember. Besides, I was developing little production skills, only recognition.

The word list isn't the only place I'm getting my vocab from. I am also getting words
from online, magazines, movies and conversations. I shall detail that as well.

Wulfgar, with what I've added above, do you have any other specific recommendations
for input to round out my language learning?
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6520 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

Message 6 of 8

28 May 2012 at 5:15pm | IP Logged

senor_smile wrote:

I used Anki for around three thousand
sentences, all from Japanese to English. I eventually found that the deck became more
and more difficult, and I eventually had a ton of cards that I couldn't really
remember. Besides, I was developing little production skills, only recognition.

When this happens, delete the boring/difficult cards. For production, include gaps in the sentences.

Seems like you've seen the page here http://learnanylanguage.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Techniques about shadowing, well, try some other techniques too. I agree that you need more listening than just Assimil, whether you prefer music or audiobooks or movies.
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Wulfgar
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4594 days ago
404 posts - 791 votes

Speaks: English*

Message 7 of 8

29 May 2012 at 7:29am | IP Logged

senor_smile wrote:

my Russian friends don't really use some of the words I've learned

Princeton has a rep for being very up to date on vocab. Would you mind posting one or two words that you've heard are out of
date? Just curious.

senor_smile wrote:

by the time I go three the three different Assimil courses

I recommend only doing one, and then moving on to something else.

senor_smile wrote:

I am "preemptively" using the wordlist to learn the most common vocab in
order of frequency

I think this is inefficient. You'll have this huge anki deck with lots of daily reps. Reps won't go down very quickly, because you
aren't encountering the words enough in your other activities. You won't have as much time to encounter them in other
activities, because you'll be busy doing your anki reps. Sort of a viscous circle. If you really want to do this, then you are better
off using lists and having few reviews, per Iversen. But I recommend dropping this plan all together, and just putting all, or a
lot of, your new words into anki after you encounter them. I limit myself to 20 words per day, and even that gets to be time
consuming.

senor_smile wrote:

Wulfgar, with what I've added above, do you have any other specific recommendations for input to
round out my language learning?

I recommend writing as a way to help your memory. Writing your new vocal might be enough for you, unless you plan on
becoming a good writer. In that case, you can try Lang8.
You should beginning speaking as soon as possible, if you haven't already. There are many nice sites out there for finding
online partners, like Shared Talk.
I recommend you listen to native material for at least 10-15 minutes a day, not including your assimil. I like Russian movies
with subtitles in Russian. There are several threads here on how to best learn with movies.
I recommend you read native material other than assimil for at least 10-15 minutes a day too. I enjoy using
LingQ You can use it for free. The great part about reading there is
that there is audio too, which will further improve your listening. There is a really nice podcast site
here that I'm reading through LingQ now.
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6520 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

Message 8 of 8

29 May 2012 at 2:02pm | IP Logged

Keep in mind that if you ask 10 experienced learners from here, there'll be almost nothing they're all agree on. Most would agree that you need listening and reading apart from Assimil, but other than that it varies.
Anyway, my two cents:

-if the language still feels strange/alien, don't start speaking yet, do more listening. yes, I'm a bit in favour of a silent period - after all, your conversations will be better if you already understand what people tell you (for most languages, the level of listening comprehension required for movies is much higher than for ordinary conversations). It's all up to you, but unless you consider yourself good at learning pronunciation, do shadowing before you start speaking.
Also, if you're mostly following the "official" Assimil method (plus more shadowing), you may want to wait until you start the active wave.

-the "do it daily" thing is overrated, imo. it's mostly a way to prevent the situation when you miss a day, miss another one, miss a whole week and quit altogether. Anyway, as for reading, see the first post here and the third one here. When you read in order to learn, t's better to read for at least half an hour uninterrupted, imo. Do less only if you get really tired/develop a headache etc otherwise. Also, there's extensive and intensive reading (I recommend reading through the entire guide). Extensive reading is often neglected - try to do some when you can, even as a beginner with simple texts. But anyway I mostly mean that it's much better to read for 30 mins 3-4 times a week than to read for 15 mins daily, provided you always have some sort of contact with the language.

-as far as I understand, you have three different versions of Assimil that are supposed to be used from scratch? There's nothing wrong with using all three, but use them when it makes sense to. If you've already done the first 10-14 lessons in the modern one, add others in parallel. Especially when reviewing, read more dialogues on the same topic and see how the same theoretical stuff is explained in the various books. You may want to sync them every now and then, ie when you reach, say, lesson 30, 50 or 75 in your "main" one, slow down and catch up with the other two (it's fine if you're at lesson 35, 55 or 80 respectively when you've done catching up - no need to stop). Otherwise you'll be bored if you do stuff that is too easy - and Assimil works best when you don't skip lessons.
Also, by default I'd recommend to shadow only the newest one. But I've not heard the audios for any of them.

Edited by Serpent on 29 May 2012 at 2:25pm

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