Best program for an audio learner? (Language Programs, Books & Tapes) Language Learning Forum

Best program for an audio learner?
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6596 days ago
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4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, Finnish^C1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

Message 17 of 37

22 March 2013 at 12:28am | IP Logged

The whole point of listening-reading is that you can do it as a beginner. You just need to be able to separate the words from one another most of the time.
Seconding the rec for Deutsche Welle, especially Deustsch? Warum nicht! :)
2 persons have voted this message useful

mentalist
Newbie
Turkey
Joined 4270 days ago
16 posts - 17 votes
Speaks: English
Studies: German

Message 18 of 37

22 March 2013 at 9:58am | IP Logged

Serpent wrote:

The whole point of listening-reading is that you can do it as a
beginner. You just need to be able to separate the words from one another most of the
time.
Seconding the rec for Deutsche Welle, especially Deustsch? Warum nicht! :)

But how will I seperate the words,that would really work for Farsi for example,but German
and Turkish have nothing in common

But after all the Listening-reading is the most enjoyable technique,how long would that
take to reach intermediate level?
1 person has voted this message useful

mentalist
Newbie
Turkey
Joined 4270 days ago
16 posts - 17 votes
Speaks: English
Studies: German

Message 19 of 37

22 March 2013 at 10:00am | IP Logged

Serpent wrote:

The whole point of listening-reading is that you can do it as a
beginner. You just need to be able to separate the words from one another most of the
time.
Seconding the rec for Deutsche Welle, especially Deustsch? Warum nicht! :)

But if yo learned all of those languages with listening-reading I'll start today:D
1 person has voted this message useful

Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6596 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

Message 20 of 37

22 March 2013 at 2:12pm | IP Logged

It's more about simply being able to hear where one word ends and the next one starts, so that the language wasn't all ddkfjkedgnjedkghnfslghslghfslghlfghdlj to you. it's okay if every now and then this happens, but most of the time it should not. in this regard some languages are just hard, such as French or Danish. German is normally considered more clear. The rhythmic patterns contribute to this for sure.

It's not similar to your native language but you already speak English! It's much more similar to English :)

As for my own learning, well, I'm not fluent in most languages on my list. Most notably, I can't produce enough in most of them, especially those listed as beginner. I've learned Finnish the hard way, with nowhere near enough listening for me as an aural learner. With Portuguese, I went through the basics formally (even took some classes) and then I started watching a lot of football in it, talking to natives on twitter etc.

At one point I started watching a lot of football in Spanish and Italian (btw I'm a girl:P) and along with LR this took me where I am, quite near passive fluency. Note that back then my Portuguese wasn't so good either. Over the past year I repeated this with Polish (so crazy to think that at this time a year ago I was just listening and following the text, trying to figure out how all those Polish szśćż corresponded to the spoken language). I went to Poland twice, and on the first day of the second trip (Jan 2013) I was almost ready to declare myself fluent. I'm not quite there yet but I'm not far from it.

While Spanish and Portuguese are certainly closer than English and German, I would say your languages are still close enough that you could just learn to understand more and more by exposure. And of course the use of a translation would help. If you like sports, you can watch them online in German ;)

But of course this depends on your goals and attitude... if you want/need to speak asap, even if you might not be able to understand a native speaker, then you need to learn some grammar sooner. However, reading and listening are also important for activating your skills. In my experience, reading helps with writing, while listening helps with speaking.

For example, with Finnish I learned to read and write first, so I had to do a lot of shadowing to be able to say what I was able to write. (though this doesn't mean I wrote better because of having the time to correct your mistakes and double check! I could write with ease, and think with ease, but when I tried to speak it came out as a mess) I expected to do the same with other languages because I'm still not keen on speaking, but now that I've been doing more listening, I only need oral exercises to improve my pronunciation, rather than to be able to say something.

as for how long... reaching the passive intermediate level is a matter of weeks, months at most. active skills can be more challenging.

Also, for more experiences with LR see the posts of doviende (click on his profile to see more or run a search for his username) and Volte (various awesome posts; log). Good luck!

Edited by Serpent on 22 March 2013 at 2:12pm
3 persons have voted this message useful

mentalist
Newbie
Turkey
Joined 4270 days ago
16 posts - 17 votes
Speaks: English
Studies: German

Message 21 of 37

22 March 2013 at 4:37pm | IP Logged

Serpent wrote:

It's more about simply being able to hear where one word ends and the
next one starts, so that the language wasn't all ddkfjkedgnjedkghnfslghslghfslghlfghdlj
to you. it's okay if every now and then this happens, but most of the time it should
not. in this regard some languages are just hard, such as French or Danish. German is
normally considered more clear. The rhythmic patterns contribute to this for sure.

It's not similar to your native language but you already speak English! It's much more
similar to English :)

As for my own learning, well, I'm not fluent in most languages on my list. Most
notably, I can't produce enough in most of them, especially those listed as beginner.
I've learned Finnish the hard way, with nowhere near enough listening for me as an
aural learner. With Portuguese, I went through the basics formally (even took some
classes) and then I started watching a lot of football in it, talking to natives on
twitter etc.

At one point I started watching a lot of football in Spanish and Italian (btw I'm a
girl:P) and along with LR this took me where I am, quite near passive fluency. Note
that back then my Portuguese wasn't so good either. Over the past year I repeated this
with Polish (so crazy to think that at this time a year ago I was just listening and
following the text, trying to figure out how all those Polish szśćż corresponded to the
spoken language). I went to Poland twice, and on the first day of the second trip (Jan
2013) I was almost ready to declare myself fluent. I'm not quite there yet but I'm not
far from it.

While Spanish and Portuguese are certainly closer than English and German, I would say
your languages are still close enough that you could just learn to understand more and
more by exposure. And of course the use of a translation would help. If you like
sports, you can watch them online in German ;)

But of course this depends on your goals and attitude... if you want/need to speak
asap, even if you might not be able to understand a native speaker, then you need to
learn some grammar sooner. However, reading and listening are also important for
activating your skills. In my experience, reading helps with writing, while listening
helps with speaking.

For example, with Finnish I learned to read and write first, so I had to do a lot of
shadowing to be able to say
what I was able to write. (though this doesn't mean I wrote better because of having
the time to correct your mistakes and double check! I could write with ease, and think
with ease, but when I tried to speak it came out as a mess) I expected to do the same
with other languages because I'm still not keen on speaking, but now that I've been
doing more listening, I only need oral exercises to improve my pronunciation, rather
than to be able to say something.

as for how long... reaching the passive intermediate level is a matter of weeks, months
at most. active skills can be more challenging.

Also, for more experiences with LR see the posts of language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16981&PN=15">doviende (click on his profile
to see more or run a search for his username) and Volte (language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21098&PN=1">various awesome posts;
TID=9047&PN=62&TPN=1">log). Good luck!

After I read your message I started digging about the method and I'm glad to hear that
I could start as beginner without suffering.I'm glad I don't have to repeat sentences
like ''CAn I sit here?'' instead I'll repeat Dostoyevski(considering Russian after
German).

But I have a few questions;

1.Can I study a couple languages at the same time?

2.Should I repeat same books or try to read as much as possible instead?

3.How many hours a day?

I'll buy Turkish version of Harry Potter and the audio version, start immediately:)
1 person has voted this message useful

Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6596 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

Message 22 of 37

22 March 2013 at 7:12pm | IP Logged

1. Yes, you can. The real issue is devoting enough time to both of them. And it might be easier to get to a higher level in German first. Once you've actually climbed the hill, you won't fall.
2. Um it depends on the book. If you do the entire HP series, I don't think you necessarily need to repeat them, especially if the translator is the same. If you use books originally written in the language, simply using those by the same author should be good too. But of course do what feels right. If you think you should repeat a book, and if you enjoy it, do it.
3. as many as you can manage without burnout :) 30 mins is too short, even if you do it every day. in my opinion, it's better to do 3 hours twice a week instead. if you can spend more time by alternating the languages, by all means do it.
2 persons have voted this message useful

Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6596 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

Message 23 of 37

22 March 2013 at 7:21pm | IP Logged

Also, I'm bored by this type of sentences as well, but Deustsch? Warum nicht! solves the problem creatively by having a supernatural character. give it a try, I loved it!
1 person has voted this message useful

LangOfChildren
Tetraglot
Groupie
Germany
Joined 5426 days ago
82 posts - 141 votes

Speaks: German*, English, French, Swedish
Studies: Mandarin, Japanese, Thai, Russian

Message 24 of 37

22 March 2013 at 8:59pm | IP Logged

mentalist wrote:

Exactly, and you aren't forced to speak before you are comfortable listening to authentic texts.

mentalist wrote:

But I have a few questions;

1.Can I study a couple languages at the same time?

There is (almost) nothing you can't do, but I would recommend to stick to a single language until you reach natural listening. After that, you can add the next.

mentalist wrote:

2.Should I repeat same books or try to read as much as possible instead?

This depends. If the book bores you after having gone through it once or if you already understand most of it, I'd say go to the next one. I think it's also okay to repeat the book three times so that by the end of the third repetition, you can understand all of it. The first Harry Potter is roughly 10 hours long, so you can do it once per day for three days and get to natural listening within that time.

mentalist wrote:

3.How many hours a day?

At least two hours (in one block with little to no breaks in-between), but preferably up to 10-12 hours. Doing listening-reading for just 15 minutes is not very effective.

mentalist wrote:

I'll buy Turkish version of Harry Potter and the audio version, start immediately:)

If you find an audio version, could you tell me where you found it, please? I'd like to L-R turkish one day.

Bread upon the waters.

Edited by LangOfChildren on 22 March 2013 at 9:00pm

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