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What lies beyond C2? | ||
Tags: Advanced Level | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4620 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 1 of 6 01 November 2013 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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A C2 speaker understands everything that is said at full native speed and can engage in detailed debate on a
wide variety of complicated topics. But they still won't have as good a command of the language as a native speaker (assuming we compare people of broadly similar intelligence). So when you reach C2, where do you go next? Do we effectively have a C3 category, or do we simply say near native, or even native-like? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sillygoose1 Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 4634 days ago 566 posts - 814 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish, French Studies: German, Latin | Message 2 of 6 01 November 2013 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think a C2 can understand *everything*, but rather almost everything. That would mean that a C2 level is native.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Re ference_for_Languages#Common_reference_levels I think the only level after C2 is native. Wouldn't C2 be near-native? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6083 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 3 of 6 02 November 2013 at 12:27am | IP Logged | ||
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I've spent almost half my life with German and I've lived in Germany for about 14 years. I would say that there's still things that are missed even if you've been in the country for as long as I have. I have trouble with some people who have soft voices. If they're speaking super fast or they're not speaking directly at me I may have to ask them to repeat bits. If I were native I don't think I'd have any trouble. My American ear just isn't attuned to the German language like a person who has been hearing the language since childhood. But it's not a hinderance.
Once you get to C2 you advance your skills the way you would your own native language. The 2nd language is no longer "foreign". For example I always like to sharpen my translation skills. I talk a lot in both languages so the vocabularies get used. I think that would be considered "C3" -- maintaining and honing whatever advanced level you're at, or maybe studying a new facet or area. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 6 02 November 2013 at 8:40am | IP Logged | ||
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I would say that there is another possibility, namely that you develop your adopted language way beyond the level of most native speakers in some areas (dialects, old languages, technical topics), but still have weak areas in others, simply because you didn't pass a certain stage in your life speaking that language - and the neurophysiological response will probably always be different. I commented on some research in my log thread several years which showed that even highly proficient translators from the EU in Bruxelles didn't have as strong responses to words from their working language as they had to their native language. And in the article the age limit was set at somewhere around 5 years, not the onset of puberty as in most sources that discuss native fluency.
Edited by Iversen on 02 November 2013 at 11:42pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7203 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 5 of 6 02 November 2013 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | ||
I wonder if this is more psychological than neurological. That is, as we become more autonomous, we are a bit more obstinante and want to do things our way. I think there is at least some of each. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 6 of 6 02 November 2013 at 9:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'll worry about it if and when I get there.
For a slightly more serious answer, echoing part of what Iversen says, I think the things you would miss out on, even at a hypothetical "C3" level, would be cultural references that you will of necessity have missed out on while growing up. For example, I can sometimes share memories with my wife or my siblings from way back when, which even our children can't fully understand (because they weren't there, and aren't particularly interested). And think of, for example a former West German marrying a former East German, and they talk about their respective childhoods. They speak the same language, but their cultural frame of reference, and even vocabulary in certain respects, will be quite different in many ways. 5 persons have voted this message useful |
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