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B2 Passive \ B1 Speaking - Basic Fluency? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6149 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 1 of 21 07 November 2013 at 11:39am | IP Logged | ||
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With regards to this forum’s categories, do you think a passive ability at B2 or even C1, but a speaking ability around B1, is Basic Fluency ? I’m just basing this on some of the self assessments in the Dead Honest Language CV thread. Personally, I think it is, but I’m wondering other peoples opinion. We previously agreed B2 was Basic Fluency, but we never made the active\passive divide.
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| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4842 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 2 of 21 07 November 2013 at 11:49am | IP Logged | ||
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Please, not another debate on what is "fluency"!
You are fluent in a language when you can speak it fluently. This may or may not coincide with a certain CEFR level or the insane definition of "basic fluency" as proposed by our forum admin. I really see no point in reactivating this debate every two months. Edited by Josquin on 07 November 2013 at 11:52am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 3 of 21 07 November 2013 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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More or less, yes. At least in terms of exams, a B2 involving presentations or debates is overkill when we're speaking of basic fluency.
Josquin, nobody is forcing you to reply, especially if you don't like the forum's categories. And no, you can't say you're fluent in language X just because you speak it with fluency. And if you say you speak fluently it's better to clarify. Edited by Serpent on 07 November 2013 at 12:16pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 4 of 21 07 November 2013 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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If you speak it fluently, I think it's safe to say you're fluent - most people have
speaking as one of their weaker skills, not one of their better ones, unless their listening and speaking are very skewed towards speaking being much better(it happens but it's rare). The opposite is much more common. For what it's worth I think that would be roundabout where fluency starts. Edited by tarvos on 07 November 2013 at 12:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4842 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 5 of 21 07 November 2013 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | ||
I hope I'm entitled to my own opinion whether it conforms to the forum's categories or not. And if so, I hope I'm also entitled to utter this opinion. Furthermore, if the term "fluency" is not derived from speaking a language fluently, where does it come from? I'm not a fan of overcomplicating matters, so why not say it clearly if you can? I don't see any need for saying "I'm A2 at speaking, but I can read at B2 level" when talking about fluency. Fluency is per definitionem the ability to speak and interact, so let's keep things simple. Edited by Josquin on 07 November 2013 at 1:38pm 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 6 of 21 07 November 2013 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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Speaking fluently is not the same as speaking well. Someone who completes Pimsleur will speak with fluency and have a good pronunciation, but their vocabulary will be very limited and grammar even more so.
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 7 of 21 07 November 2013 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | ||
If someone has vocabulary holes the size of planets that will eventually show. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4842 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 8 of 21 07 November 2013 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | ||
You're deliberately misinterpreting the term "fluent". How can someone with a limited vocabulary speak fluently? I was not talking about reciting memorized phrases, but being able to hold a natural conversation. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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