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Is Chinese going to be the lingua franca? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Rikyu-san Diglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 5530 days ago 213 posts - 413 votes  Speaks: Danish*, English Studies: German, French | Message 169 of 249 27 November 2009 at 10:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Interesting post. We have not yet had this in Denmark. I always try to find out whether such things happen by coincidence and by design. In this case, given the resources and decission processes involved in creating a programme for television, it must have happened by design. This means that the Australian television company find it desirable that Australian children familiarize themselves with snippets of Mandarin. Why? Because Mandarin becomes more important in the future, even for the lingua franca speaking Australians.
Also very interesting. Perhaps Japanese is also growing in importance. Are these two posts reflecting a coming wave of multi lingualism? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Hoopskidoodle Senior Member United States Joined 5502 days ago 55 posts - 68 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 170 of 249 27 November 2009 at 11:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||
My daughter attended a Japanese immersion school, in the United States, in grades K through 8. She also spent a few summers attending school near Nagoya (Toyota City.) Oddly she's now minoring in French (she gotten herself messed up with that Médecins Sans Frontières crowd.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6770 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 171 of 249 27 November 2009 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Cool, that's my neck of the woods. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| dissident Newbie United States Joined 5314 days ago 37 posts - 43 votes | Message 172 of 249 04 November 2010 at 7:32am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think our terminology is not up to the task of defining the situation that we are attempting to analyze.
I think if we could define Primary, Secondary and even Tertiary Lingua Franca that could help us. My take: today ( 2010 ): world: primary - English; secondary - French & Spanish; tertiary - Arabic USA: primary - English; secondary Spanish; tertiary - French, Russian, Hebrew Europe: primary - English; secondary French; tertiary - German Latin America ( mostly guessing here ) - Primary Spanish; Secondary - English Africa - no clue Russia: Primary - Russian; Secondary - English. East Asia: Primary - English, Secondary - Mandarin. tomorrow ( 2050 ): world: primary English; secondary - Mandarin, Spanish, French, Arabic USA: primary English & Spanish; secondary - Mandarin; tertiary - French, Russian, Hebrew Europe: None. Latin America: Primary - Spanish, Secondary - English Africa - no clue Russia: Primary - Russian, Secondary - Mandarin, Tertiary - English East Asia: Primary - Mandarin, Secondary - English. Edited by dissident on 04 November 2010 at 7:38am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jeeb Groupie Joined 5162 days ago 49 posts - 80 votes | Message 173 of 249 04 November 2010 at 9:09am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I don't understand the appeal of "Chinese".
Any Chinese can replace you easily - competitive Chinese are tetralingual and even pentalingual and their salary is very low. Chinese are hardworking and can work extra time without paying. Obviously, they understand Chinese customer more than you do. Unless you're as creative as Steve Jobs, any Chinese can replace you. Besides, there're lots of copycats. You can never excel "Chinese". You can be fluent in speaking but you can never read a complete adult-level "Chinese" book. Chinese children spend ALL THEIR CHILDHOOD on practicing Chinese writing and spend many YEARS in studying in CLASSICAL CHINESE. Many Chinese idioms and vocabularies come from classical Chinese. An educated Chinese can study English literature without much pain (as long as there're cliff notes), but you can never read classical Chinese with ease. And I see people just type pinyin as method of writing "Chinese". You know what, pinyin input causes many Chinese forget how to write Chinese characters.... Look at jobs in Hong Kong. Salary is already higher than most parts of China. http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php? fbid=441403922581&set=a.346047257581.151646.46309462581 Candidates have to have speak Cantonese, Mandarin, Shanghaiese and English and do you know what salary do employee gives??? Just 6000HKD, which is less then 900 USD per month. http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php? fbid=436144867581&set=a.346047257581.151646.46309462581 Cantonese, Mandarin, Thai, English/Korean/Japanese and it only worths about 7k to 9k HKD per month, which is about 1000 USD I've seen jobs that require people to speak Cantonese, Mandarin, English, Spanish and Japanese and the position worths less than 10K HKD, which is about 1300 USD.... Modern Chinese are at least trilingual/tetralingual - Mandarin, another Chinese language, English, maybe Japanese/French And how do you compete with them, seriously? Even Hongkonger aren't cheap enough, translation jobs got outsourced to China I may sound anti-China but these are the truths. I'm Chinese myself. I can't stand cheap salary anymore. What's the point of joining the bandwagon of "Chinese"? OK, you may get the skill Chinese don't have NOW, but once they have learnt from you, You won't be useful in China for long. If you learn "Chinese" because you love the culture, it's fine. If you learn "Chinese" for $$$$$$$$$, hahahah Also, I don't want Mandarin as the lingua franca in China. Han Chinese has great diversity and it even shows up in the DNA markup. I wish one day there would democracy in China so that other Chinese languages could become official languages. Chinese =/= Mandarin Other Chinese languages =/= dialects of Mandarin Other Chinese languages have their own dialects . Edited by jeeb on 04 November 2010 at 10:21am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| GREGORG4000 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5525 days ago 307 posts - 479 votes Speaks: English*, Finnish Studies: Japanese, Korean, Amharic, French | Message 174 of 249 04 November 2010 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I do agree that people tend to choose Mandarin for economic reasons over love of the culture, people, etc. However, I have seen many accounts of people who have successfully managed to read adult-level literature, on this very forum. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| dissident Newbie United States Joined 5314 days ago 37 posts - 43 votes | Message 175 of 249 04 November 2010 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Thank you for your information, however your logic is far from bulletproof. In particular i don't see what i could possibly gain by NOT knowing Mandarin ... Also suppose we can't compete with the Chinese - what are we supposed to do ? Kill ourselves ? I don't think that works for me. In other words I will continue studying Mandarin ... What other languages do you see as important in East Asia ? I am an engineer and want to know the most important languages in the engineering sphere. I am studying German and Mandarin currently but i also have interest in Japanese. I cannot decide however whether Japanese would enrich me or rob me of time that i should be spending on Mandarin instead ? Edited by dissident on 04 November 2010 at 5:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jeeb Groupie Joined 5162 days ago 49 posts - 80 votes | Message 176 of 249 04 November 2010 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
But do you know how many years and efforts they have pumped into learning??? And how well can they write? I've studied English since 3 years-old and I still make grammatical mistakes. And what kind of adult-level literature? Newspaper? Magazine? Novel? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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