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I don’t like SRS | ||
Tags: Spaced Repetition (SRS) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Norli Newbie Norway Joined 4577 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English | Message 1 of 46 23 March 2012 at 3:49am | IP Logged | ||
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I tried Anki and several other spaced repition flashcards, but it didn't help me
memorize words better than flashcards with no SRS. Choosing how many times to look up a card myself is way more efficient for remembering a word, at least for me. Edited by Norli on 23 March 2012 at 3:49am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5349 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 2 of 46 23 March 2012 at 4:32am | IP Logged | ||
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What was your approach to using an SRS? They are best used as a means for long-term retention so if you tried to use an SRS as a means to initially learn vocabulary you are likely to run into problems. A good way is to learn a set of vocabulary well enough so that you will be very unlikely to forget it for at least a day or so, then put the items into your SRS and review them the following day.
Some people make the mistake of not learning their items properly before putting them into their SRS. The whole point of an SRS is to make sure you study efficiently in the long-term by reviewing the cards you do badly with more often in comparison with the cards you find easy. 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6513 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 3 of 46 23 March 2012 at 6:57am | IP Logged | ||
I think the problem here is that the first few necessary repetitions are skipped in programs like Anki. I don't know the exact intervals (and it depends on the ease of recall, of course), but it should be something like ten seconds, one minute, ten minutes, an hour, six hours, a day, three days, a week, and so on. Anki starts at "a day", which is why you have to do the other intervals yourself. There are other SRS apps, such as Brainscape, that work slightly differently. I've had a lot of success memorizing things starting from zero knowledge with Brainscape, though I think it's a lot worse at longer intervals. Edited by Ari on 23 March 2012 at 7:25am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6634 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 46 23 March 2012 at 9:36am | IP Logged | ||
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I definitely prefer wordlists to both SRS and flashcards. When I use my own setup where words are learnt in groups of 5 to 7, the first repetitions are very close in time: while I'm thinking about word no. 2 in a group, word no. 1 has been pushed out of my mind and therefore it is a repetition round when I get through the block and returns to word no. 1 again - and there is my first repetition within seconds.
After that I make a repetition round within a day or so of the whole list. In case I take the words from dictionaries or random notes the repetition round has been integrated into the layout I use, whereas I have come to the conclusion that the proper repetition for words from texts is to reread the text. In both cases I am in charge and not some algorithm. Sometimes I reread my wordlists later to get a third round, but only if there are too many words that has caused me trouble in round two. It is NOT important that every single word is memorized and certified as long as the percentage of words recalled is fairly high - I'll add new words on a daily basis and if a word I have forgotten is important enough I will come back to it again sooner or later. And if I don't see it again it wasn't a word I needed to learn. The central point in SRS programs is that you are presented with the words on your lists according to some hidden algorithm, but to you it appear like random testing. However random exposure is exactly what you get by extensive reading and listening, just with words from the total sum of words in your target language AND with a context. The memorization phase is there to prepare me so that I can understand the words when I see them in the real world, and I prefer getting my randomized surprises while reading about something worthwhile. Besides I don't like being tested - I prefer being in charge of my own learning. SRS programs remind me of those tests where a monkey has to push a certain button to get a peanut. Edited by Iversen on 23 March 2012 at 10:07am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4632 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 5 of 46 23 March 2012 at 9:50am | IP Logged | ||
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It also has to do with mindset.
If you engage your vocab with some kind of "anti" attitude (even unconsciously), your retention and recall will go down. I also use SRS and it works just fine. If you took your time during the initial learning stage, you should be fine. Edited by atama warui on 23 March 2012 at 9:50am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6634 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 46 23 March 2012 at 9:54am | IP Logged | ||
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True. My mindset is out of synch with the whole concept of SRS.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4632 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 7 of 46 23 March 2012 at 9:59am | IP Logged | ||
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It doesn't even necessarily have to do with the method... there are quite some. Some people prefer SRS, others word lists, and some believe in picking up words through reading or laying around under the Christmas Tree.
If you don't really want those words, if you reject them, if it feels hard to learn them, if there's no positive effect or feedback or moments of "yay, I learned that yesterday, now I can understand it!", it's an exercise in futility. The psychological aspects are often underrated, and so is vocab studies. It is not "one of the things" to learn, it is actually at least 80% of what you do. grammar, practice, all that is comparably easily done, or in a shorter amount of time, with a LOT less work. So, if you perceive your current method as boring, find a "better" method (one that keeps you awake while studying). 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5157 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 8 of 46 23 March 2012 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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I love the concept of spaced repetition -- I have found it a very good approximation of how memory internals must work (thus being a very 'natural' method). However, it is completely unworkable for me if self-study (another basic thing that is so 'natural' to me and many other adult learners) is prevented -- and that's the problem with SRS.
I naturally sort my review materials (this is a general thing, not restricted to languages or even vocabulary) so that I review 'hard' materials more often while I periodically set apart or just skip the parts I'm sure I know already so reviewing them doesn't eat into my learning time. Why would anyone work some other way without a strong reason? In the end I do pretty much SRS-like repetitions of materials until I 'learn' them. The thing is, in general I know what I need to review and when, and software usually just gets in the way (like some Anki version I wanted to try until I read the docs, I don't know about its current incarnation). I usually jot down materials to review or references on the fly and once I'm done with whatever I'm doing, I sort these materials and have a first adequate go at them. Then over time I get back to the pile reviewing some parts and skipping some others, over and over... well, I hope you get the idea, even if only by repetition ;) So far the only advantage I can see in using software is keeping an accurate track of how well I do in self-testing. However, that would be based on my own impression just like normal review, and with that I'm not restricted to specific types or formats of materials nor to specific reviewing windows. This reminds me of the time when I attended a conference by Roger Penrose maybe five years ago, and he brought some transparencies with him. I was immensely -and pleasantly- surprised when they turned out to be simple, quick sketches hand-drawn with felt-tip markers of several colours, instead of your usual fluffy PowerPoint presentation -- and everything on them was just about perfect. Despite this, many people commented on how 'cheap' that was. As a super-power computer user I know it would have taken *me* bloody ages to make those sketches using any program, while it would take any normal person scarcely ten minutes to draw them by hand. Moral of the story? Software makes my life easier, but only because I choose what software I use, when and why. Most of the time it just becomes a bunch of trees that don't let you see the forest. 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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