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Is a universal language undesirable? | ||
Tags: Lingua franca | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| maurelio1234 Triglot Groupie BrazilRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6078 days ago 61 posts - 92 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishC2, French Studies: German, Mandarin | Message 33 of 75 08 November 2012 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | ||
That's not necessarily true, different countries in the word share the same language but not the same culture... And in big countries many "local cultures" also exist, under the same language! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4666 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 34 of 75 09 November 2012 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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The universal language will be telepathic: the language of thoughts.
A universal sign language could be a near future alternative. Edited by Medulin on 09 November 2012 at 6:55pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4442 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 35 of 75 13 November 2012 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||
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Being able to communicate in other languages is a good start. On the other hand we
should try to be accommodating to other people's cultures and beliefs and not impose Western or any kind of values on other people. If someone is coming from a place where women are required to wear head covering in public doesn't matter where the person is living, she will be seen with her head covered. Is there a universal language? It is much easier for people to learn each other's food preferences and eating habits than languages because everybody have to eat. If you go strictly by the numbers Chinese Mandarin definitely top the list. However, a lot of Westerners feel uncomfortable learning the characters that is not an alphabet. Coming from a country where more than 1 language is recognized (like Belgium, India or the Philippines) your language identifies your ethnicity. In some countries making 1 language dominant over others create issues as if 1 group is trying to impose their will on others. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jingwumaster Newbie United States Joined 4668 days ago 33 posts - 46 votes Speaks: English* | Message 36 of 75 14 November 2012 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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First off, I'd like to state clearly that the use of the word "pride" when concerning Americans in this thread is inaccurate, Americans tend to think they have "pride" but at the end of the day I think it is really arrogance. Americans tend to be arrogant about their language, so please don't confuse that with the word "pride" which is not inherently negative.
By the way, I'm American ( or to be more accurate North American)or to be even more accurate from the United States (because North American could refer to Canadians)). I feel no pride or arrogance for English, even though it is my native language, and I'm alarmed at how much influence it seems to have in the world. I think a universal-second-language could obviously be useful, but know that it's impossible even for that to occur without affecting all the worlds languages to some degree, and if instead we call for monolingualism then this will inevitably increase many peoples arrogance for their language and by extension their culture and by extension their right to make other people subordinate to them. Of course, thinking that such an event would lead to such a series of events is a logical fallacy I know, but it could be true nonetheless. Obviously I am against a universal language and I am disgusted by the affect my native language has had on the world, but at the same time support and advocate multilingualism (or at least bilingualism) to help people better empathize with other cultures. I am disgusted by elitist who think everyone should adopt English and western ways. People should celebrate their differences not use them against each other. Anyway, at least know that Americans (and perhaps other anglophones) tend to be arrogant about their language not pride. Of course, that's just my opinion. Hasta la proxima. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| SobreLaLey Newbie United States Joined 4424 days ago 8 posts - 14 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 37 of 75 15 November 2012 at 12:52am | IP Logged | ||
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[QUOTE=jingwumaster]... Americans tend to think they have "pride" but at the end of the day I think it is really arrogance. Americans tend to be arrogant about their language...[QUOTE=jingwumaster]
Arrogance is just pride you disagree with. I'm very proud of the role English has gained in the world, theres nothing wrong with success. I wish more Americans would be multi-lingual, yes, but English is a pretty sweet language for language lovers: its got bits and pieces of virtually everything. [QUOTE=jingwumaster]Obviously I am against a universal language and I am disgusted by the affect my native language has had on the world, but at the same time support and advocate multilingualism (or at least bilingualism) to help people better empathize with other cultures. I am disgusted by elitist who think everyone should adopt English and western ways.[QUOTE=jingwumaster] What negative effect are you talking about exactly? A means through which virtually any society in the world can communicate? Would you be happier if French became the lingua franca of the world, and then would you be disgusted by the impact French had on the world? Dont hate yourself because you happened to be given at birth the most useful language currently in the world. I understand you said this was just your opinion, but I think part of the reason Americans have so much "arrogance" about English is because, frankly, they can. Americans are bad at learning languages because they can afford to be. Is American policy flawed both now and throughout our history like every other country? Heck yeah. Should you be ashamed of being a native speaker of "the hottest girl in the room" so to speak, the language many people have no choice but to learn to survive in the global economy, the language that possesses one of if not the biggest collections of literature, music, film, etc? Absolutely not. English hasn't done anything bad, its a means of communication, and a damn good one at that; a wonderful, confusing, random mix of latin and Germanic, with some other influences thrown in I'm sure. I love languages, don't think Americans or English are any better than any other society or language, and I think Americans should learn more languages. However, I'm proud to be American, proud to speak English, and think that a little bit of pride is healthy for a country and a culture. Nothing personal towards you, I just get a little sick of Americans being so self-critical about some of these things. We aren't that bad, and other societies are no more moral than us. Again, nothing personal. Edited by SobreLaLey on 15 November 2012 at 12:54am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6657 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 38 of 75 15 November 2012 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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Let's just imagine that some truly universal language pops up. How long would it last?
Centuries ago, Latin was the language of the Roman Empire--not worldwide, but a big and important chunk of it. Latin fractured into the Romance languages. English may some day spin off into local, national and regional dialects. Would an Indian in India speaking English in India always be able to communicate in English with someone from North America, Australia or he Caribbean? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jingwumaster Newbie United States Joined 4668 days ago 33 posts - 46 votes Speaks: English* | Message 39 of 75 16 November 2012 at 12:22am | IP Logged | ||
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Sobre, I will try to respond to some of your comments about my post.
First, about the pride vs arrogance thing. It is true that arrogance is a form of pride but they are certainly not the same, that is, arrogance isn't pride that you disagree with, it is pride with a sense of superiority over others. I feel that Americans tend to look down on other languages, as if, theirs is better. This isn't pride at all, but looking down at others as inferior. Obviously that isn't true for all Americans, nor is anything true for all members of a group about anything, but it may be true about a significant amount of Americans. Of course, that is just speculation based on my own experiences, which isn't necessarily strong evidence, but it is a type of evidence nonetheless. It is simply my impression. I'd like to repeat that I am not illogical enough to assume that something is true for everyone because that is almost never the case. I am talking about what's common not absolute. Second, I never said the affects were negative, though I implied it. The reason being that a universal language has both positive and negatives (like most things in life). Also, whether or not the influence of English in the world qualifies as a success depends entirely on who you ask, that is, it is a matter of perspective. If you ask your typical native speaker of English, then yes they would probably call it a success, yet if you ask a person from a culture whose language has been displaced either partly or wholly by English, you may get more interesting and often different answers. Look at the influence the Roman Empire once had on the world, at the time, I'm sure there were people that thought it was a good thing, but there must have obviously been many more who hated it and resented the spread of the Roman Empire. Before you dismiss that as a false analogy, actually think about it first. Third, you said Americans can afford to be monolingual, theres no question about that. On the beauty of the English language I feel very different than you about that. I don't see the confusing mix of aspects from other languages and the inconsistencies of English as a beautiful thing but instead see it as an ugly thing. If English spelling was at least more consistent than it wouldn't be as hard for foreigners to learn. Four, you seem to imply that many Americans are too self-critical, yet my experience is just the opposite, that they seem rather mindless and do not question things nearly enough. Again, I'm saying this about a significant amount of Americans, but it obviously isn't true about everyone, which should go without saying. Concerning my pride or lack-there-of in English and or America, I am not patriotic and I think patriotism is nonsense. Where you happen to be born is a matter of chance outside the control of yourself, and theres nothing special at all about it. Further more, the ideals that this country is suppose to be founded on have never been and never will be what this country approaches. I say approaches because ideals are unreachable to begin with, they are simply standards that drive you further (hopefully) than you would have otherwise gone. Finally I'll say this, that my criticisms come more from my inability to fit-into this country and culture than anything else, and they are more about America than they are about English. I have felt like an alien in this country my whole life, I think I wasn't meant for American culture, and I admit that isn't entirely the fault of America, but more my own. Intellectually, I suffer greatly, thus is my life, and theres nothing wrong with it. Suffering is a natural and meaningful part of life. Sorry for getting a bit off topic. Anyway, you should realize, I say none of this with anger. It is just how I feel. I realize that many people think differently than me (fundamentally), though I'm sure I sound pretentious, that is simply how I have felt my whole life, like an alien, or a ghost among zombies. Also, I'd like to state that I am not nearly as negative or pessimistic as I sound, and I always wish the best for decent people, even if they are radically different from me. Hasta la proxima 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Zireael Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 4649 days ago 518 posts - 636 votes Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, Spanish Studies: German, Sign Language, Tok Pisin, Arabic (Yemeni), Old English | Message 40 of 75 24 March 2013 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | ||
Latin lasted for nearly a millenium. Then we had French for 300 years. English's domination dates only from 20th century onwards. I've heard suggestions that Chinese/Arabic might be the next lingua franca? And to answer the OP's question - I don't think a lingua franca is a bad thing. Where would we be in terms of academic research if we didn't have access to international resources? 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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