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Language as Habit | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6437 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes  Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 25 of 26 04 October 2013 at 4:40am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Retinend: we read his post quite differently; I'd be interested to hear which re-expression of his views he thinks is closer to his meaning. I read it as a rejection of dualism, with slightly misleading diction.
My impression was that he realized that language learning isn't something you can just force into your head by sheer willpower and hard work, but something that requires time and conditions that are compatible with the growth of physical neurons - including enough rest and relaxation. He eventually realized, while pushing himself far too hard in an unproductive direction, that some of his ideas about learning had been severely misguided. He moved from sheer force-of-will powered memorization and the corresponding feeling of having his brain be a leaky bucket, to realizing that learning is a matter of "proper stimulation" - a concept not entirely unlike Krashen's i+1 input model, albeit more general and vague. And he learned that language learning cannot be rushed through the intensive application of inefficient methods. I thought his post was a thoughtful commentary on a path that he tried extremely hard on - 40 days at 12-16 hours a day is a massive chunk of effort - and his results, and what he learned from the failure of the approach he used. I really wish there were more posts like it on this forum - frank discussion of specific methods people have used extensively in such a pure form are quite rare, and it's really interesting to see how well/poorly they work out in practice, as well as in theory or tiny doses. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| futurianus Senior Member Korea, South starlightonclou Joined 5007 days ago 125 posts - 234 votes Speaks: Korean* | Message 26 of 26 04 October 2013 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Volte,
Thanks for a very clean and compact summary interpretation of my post. Retinend, I appreciate your perceptive analysis and comments. I can almost hear you muttering out "Hmmm", with the big eyes of your mask staring steadily and deeply into me with interest. Feel like I have been a specimen for a good session of dissection and analysis.
You are right. It is difficult to get away from dualistic thinking mode and expressions. I suspect that our language itself creates dualism, as soon as it is used. In the mystic silence, perhaps we might be able to escape the matrix of dualism. By the way, I do not totally reject dualism, but embrace it within a wholistic system.
Agree.
Interesting and important point.
Disappointment? Yes. Stress? Some, but not much. I also greatly enjoyed this stressful experience, though was physically exhausted all the time by intensive 'mental activity'. It gives me some kind of 'high' to become fully immersed in doing something. I was frustrated to not see the result quickly, but I was not agonizing. I used a metaphor of a desperate dog to tell a story in a more demystified and palatable manner to the readers. I would have continued on for a month or two more, as I had originally allocated three months of time for this project, but I had to suddenly stop and leave the country due to an unexpected situation that demanded my immediate return. It was a matter of overdoing it that did not yield maximum result. It produced some good results and improved my Russian, of course, as I could use what I was memorizing in various situations right away, but it constituted only just a small portion of what I was memorizing. Thousands of words were escaping me, even though I had also extracted quite a lot of words from magazines and newspapers I was reading.
Exactly. How did you read my mind?^^ Even though I knew that a brain was a network of nerve cells, I had a model of brain that was more mechanical, that of a computer, which would store both short and long term memories. If I was to repeatedly rememorize certain information long enough, it would move from short term memory into long term memory. I worked on this model for learning vocabulary. This model worked for me fine in several other situations, including learning a language. However, there was something lacking in it for absorbing several thousands of words for moving a pre-intermediate learner into an advanced level within several months. I had already acquired a simple conversational skill during the three months before I started this memorization project, according to the immersive approach that I had described in What is an effective immersion method?. Thus when I started this project I already had about 300 actively working vocabulary with which I had become pretty well habituated or accustomed so as to be able to use them somewhat comfortably and carry out simple conversations in Russian. I was about to enter pre-intermediate stage in my language venture. At this moment, I had become so enamored with Russian, with its music, culture, history and people, that I became too greedy. I wanted to attain an advanced level in Russian as quick as possible as I did not have too much time in my hand and there were other regions I planned to go and experience. Thus I planned a shortcut. I knew that I could fail, but I wanted to give it a try. What can I lose from studying hard and making an effort? After three months there, I planned to move around other Rusophone countries for another three to four months, and I felt that another three months of intense study will lay a good foundation for using and improving on them later when I move to other places. For me, after the beginning stage, the decisive factor in mastering another language was increasing one's vocabulary. The size of vocabulary was for me what primarily distinguished the intermediate and advanced level. I was faced with exactly same situation where I had wished several times before that I could just go away to a private room in another dimension, where time will stop for two or three years, where I could just learn all the vocabulary and then come back in just a day or two of time in my real world. I looked at this stage with much begrudgement as boring, as not a good utilization of our intellectual resources, a price I have to pay for having been born in an age still struggling to grow out of its primitive state. Would it not be wonderful if we could, after having mastered the basis of a new language, have a biochip plugged or implanted into our brain, which could supply us all the database of vocabulary in a new language? You have to learn all over again different phonetic values for things such as 'scissor', 'material', 'construction', 'lizard', 'heaven', 'examination', 'exciting', etc. You do not want to rely on the crutch of using English words to fill in the lack in your vocabulary. You will also want to listen to their speech and understand them. Thus it is crucial to increase your vocabulary, but it will take too long a time and I felt pressured for time.
This is another very powerful information that has been published, which is quite helpful to me.
I will leave more detailed scientific theorizing to the experts in relevant fields. The new findings of neuroscientists around that time, however, had a decisive influence on my approach to learning new languages. In conjunction with several other factors, it has helped me to --have stronger faith that a new language will be acquired, if I just spend enough time with it. I try to imagine a time when I will be able to look back and wonder how I could not have known this language before, be so habituated to it that I would feel like I have known it all my life. --immerse myself into the process and enjoy my time in and with the language. --become more aware and sensitive to what kind of attitude I should have towards learning a language and what kind of stimuli are more conducive for learning. In summary, it has greatly helped me to relax and enjoy my learning experience more. Retinend, You seem to know more about me than myself. Perhaps your mask with those two big eyes and a grin gives you that power of analysis.^^ I enjoyed reading your detailed comments and interacting with you. Edited by futurianus on 04 October 2013 at 8:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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