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Learn Finnish for travel in Finland? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| sans-serif Tetraglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4558 days ago 298 posts - 470 votes  Speaks: Finnish*, English, German, Swedish Studies: Danish | Message 41 of 49 11 February 2013 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Not widely at all. I'm under the impression that native speakers of Russian living in Finland clearly outnumber those who have studied the language to any useful degree, and there are only about 50k of the former [x, in Finnish], which is less than 1% of the total population of Finland.
Yes, but we were first part of Sweden for 700 years or so; the Russian rule lasted from 1809 to 1917. During that period we had a significant amount of autonomy—our own currency and legal system, for example—and Swedish remained the sole language of administration until Finnish was later given equal status. [x]
WW2 left some deep scars in the national psyche, and the politically precarious years leading up to the collapse of the USSR did little to dispel those negative attitudes. The last 20 years have evened things out considerably, but it's going to take a good while longer until Russian becomes as popular a language as it arguably should be. Edited by sans-serif on 11 February 2013 at 10:06pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| VanamoVenlo Diglot Groupie Australia Joined 4341 days ago 42 posts - 58 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Finnish | Message 42 of 49 12 February 2013 at 2:40am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Perhaps, although I think it's worth noting that that image is often partly cultivated by the countries in question themselves. My very first time going to Finland at a young age I was told by the Finns that I was going to be staying with that everybody under a certain age spoke English, but as you said in the real world things can work differently. I've met young people who spoke little English or didn't care to speak English. I recently had an 18 year old helping me and chatting to me in Finnish at the ticket machine in Helsinki station and she didn't seem interested in using any English and my Finnish is A1-ish. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6596 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 43 of 49 12 February 2013 at 4:26am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It's worth mentioning that there's a difference between "can survive as a tourist in L2" and "can help a tourist in L2". The former is many people's definition of speaking a language.
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| VanamoVenlo Diglot Groupie Australia Joined 4341 days ago 42 posts - 58 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Finnish | Message 44 of 49 12 February 2013 at 4:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Definitely a good distinction. I think the point I was trying to make was that if you want to use English only as a tourist in Finland you'll have no problems. If you want to speak Finnish as a tourist and language learner in Finland there are many opportunities even in downtown Helsinki and even at an A-level. Edited by VanamoVenlo on 12 February 2013 at 4:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| kovajätkä Diglot Newbie Italy Joined 4262 days ago 3 posts - 10 votes Speaks: English*, Finnish Studies: Italian | Message 45 of 49 26 March 2013 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Maybe someone else has made this point, but I haven't read all of the responses. So I'll make it. I love Finland and the Finnish language. So I am excited for anyone who wants to learn about them. A few years ago I had plans to spend a few weeks working north of Seoul, Korea (mostly with Americans, but also with some Koreans) for a few weeks with no plans to ever return. Yet I still wanted to take the opportunity to try to learn as much about the language and culture as I could before I got there. So I did some searches on iTunes for free podcasts and lectures and on YouTube for lessons. I found some fabulous resources and spent a lot of time learning. The learning experience was wonderful. When I got to the country and could say quite a few phrases in Korean with a good accent and knew a good amount about the culture and some history, the Koreans I worked with were very impressed. I was just happy to be able to not be another happily ignorant American visiting their country. I was amazed at the amount of good will that I built instantly by calmly using some of these phrases. And my experience there was greatly enhanced due to this preparation. My point is that if you would like to learn about Finland and Finnish, DO IT. No knowledge is bad. I lived in Helsinki (including Espoo and Vantaa) for a year (and in other smaller cities for another year) and met many people that could speak English very well - particularly people under, say, 35. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't learn some of their language. Since Finns (and Swedes and....) know English so well, they are probably less likely to hear an American tourist who has bothered to learn any Finnish other than maybe Terve! or Mitä kuuluu? so why not honor them with exhibiting that you actually care about their culture? Learn about the Winter War, about Karjala, about sauna, about salmiakki, about Elias Lönnrot and the Kalevala, about sisu, about Aleksis Kivi and Seitsemän Veljestä, Eero Saarinen, Jean Sibelius, and the mökki. These things are important to Finns. Understand these things and you will better know the soul of a Finn. I won't comment on the difficulty of the language. I will just say its structure is probably different from anything you have ever studied before. That and the dearth of cognates can make it very intimidating. Just keep in mind that the letter y is not pronounced like you expect it to. So I say, jump in and absorb some Finnishness into your soul. See how it feels. Edited by kovajätkä on 26 March 2013 at 11:11pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 46 of 49 26 March 2013 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think the biggest factor in "will someone from country x speak English with me" are the
following factors - level of the accent (really strong accents make people think you're a foreigner) - starting in the TL without asking if you speak English (this usually elicits a response in the TL) - general attitude and demeanour, how do you present yourself, etc. In all my years of trying to speak foreign languages I have not once gotten a reply in English if I followed these three rules. Appear interested, work on your pronunciation, and start in the foreign language. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4621 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 47 of 49 27 March 2013 at 10:47am | IP Logged | ||||||||
As you make progress with a foreign language, I think a "tipping point" exists, after which the majority of people who speak your TL will readily use it with you, rather than attempt to steer the conversation towards English or some other language common to both parties. In Germany, there are many people who can speak English if they have to, but it remains a slog for them because they don't use the language on a regular basis. It is a tool they sometimes have to use when venturing abroad or engaging with visitors to their own country who don't speak German. Therefore, if you reach a level of German which makes interaction with native speakers realtively painless, it is amazing how many people will then use only German with you from that point on. This enables them to slip back into a comfort zone by speaking their native tongue, while the other person does the hard graft in the foreign language. The stage at which this tipping point kicks in will vary from country to country, depending on the general level of English spoken there. Edited by beano on 27 March 2013 at 10:49am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 48 of 49 27 March 2013 at 11:07am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I have not had any trouble forcing people into Icelandic even though I don't know more
than hi, thank you, and bye. Similarly with Italian and other languages. I really think attitude is much more important and it's what you project as a learner knowing your pronunciation that will force "English mode". I have never encountered problems speaking German to Germans if I addressed them in German first. It's a matter of establishing from day 1 to them that you are a German speaker and can be addressed (and wish to be addressed) in that language. If you show signs of struggle, people will speak English to help just because they are nice like that. It's confidence and not sounding like a baboon, pay attention to your consonants an vowels (I'm not English so I don't have to worry about over-diphthongising my vowels). Edited by tarvos on 27 March 2013 at 11:08am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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