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Adventures in Cebuano, etc. (Goldlist) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| ElComadreja Senior Member Philippines bibletranslatio Joined 7244 days ago 683 posts - 757 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew, Cebuano, French, Tagalog | Message 9 of 145 08 April 2013 at 2:40pm | IP Logged |
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I noticed something over the last few days. In the past when trying to think of a Cebuano word, I would think of the Spanish word instead (and sometimes it's still the right word). Now when someone asks me what the Spanish word is for something, I usually think of the Cebuano word first.
I'm still picking up some words from the Cebuano Bible and I'm still learning words that are not irrelevant. I remember this happening in Spanish... I'd see a word, look it up, and think that no one is ever going to use this word, and then the next day I hear it at least 3 times. I'm still following an internet broadcast of Cebuano news, with what seems like a level of understanding that is not improving. To tell the truth, if I understand an entire news broadcast then my Cebuano will be better than my Spanish. I'm nearly at the "get by" level of person to person conversation. The basic phrases are coming out more quickly. It may be because I made a few of them into audio cards. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5172 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 10 of 145 08 April 2013 at 8:50pm | IP Logged |
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I believe the same is going to happen with me now as I'm studying Papiamento (I already speak Spanish a bit beyond the portuñol level). My natural substitute for a Papiamento word will be a Spanish one.
What you say might be true. I'm worried about learning useless vocabulary, but then I happen to come across them the very day! That's specially true for French. What I find useless when reading a book is just typical C2 vocabulary that so far I wouldn't have to worry about, as I could be expressing it with periphrases, and know I'm learning to give right names to things, like, a right name for each type of pan, curtain, tile, chair, you know, that stuff that indeed is advanced, because the essential concept is a basic word but those distinctions aren't,and you wouldn't miss your point by not knowing them so far. I may try to follow the news with Papiamento too, see if it gets any better. Last night I watched an interview, and I liked the training. Then I tried a news podcast but it happened to be Dutch instead. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ElComadreja Senior Member Philippines bibletranslatio Joined 7244 days ago 683 posts - 757 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew, Cebuano, French, Tagalog | Message 11 of 145 09 April 2013 at 2:12pm | IP Logged |
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Hmm Papiamento reminds me of Chavacano, which is somewhat intelligible to me, because it leans more heavily on Spanish.
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| ElComadreja Senior Member Philippines bibletranslatio Joined 7244 days ago 683 posts - 757 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew, Cebuano, French, Tagalog | Message 12 of 145 11 April 2013 at 6:00am | IP Logged |
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Finally, measurable success! Usually when I read a chapter in my Cebuano Bible there's about 20 words that I don't know. I saw a chart somewhere that says that means I know 97% of the words that I'm reading, but even at that level it's often hard to grab a hold of the main thoughts. This is the level of reading that I've been at for like 4 and a half months.
Anyway I noticed several times recently that when I wasn't sure what something meant, I went over and checked in in the English and usually I was right. So, I put away my bilingual, and read though a book familiar to me, but that I have not read in Cebuano. Got through about 10 chapters before I got tired of reading! As you might expect there were some words here and there that I didn't know, but it was not enough to block my overall understanding, and sometimes I was able to figure it out by context. Later that day I had an opportunity to listen to the native speakers. I was able to grab some words here and there from the ones I normally consider impossible to understand, with bursts of total comprehension. Then I feel asleep early :p I'm noticing a high correlation between by reading and oral comprehension in languages in general. But, if all I do is read, then I won't understand what people are saying. Perhaps me doing exercises for verbal understanding helps on both ends? And reading lets me sort the grammar out at my own speed? Did persistence bring this about or my audio flashcards (or both)? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5172 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 13 of 145 11 April 2013 at 6:57pm | IP Logged |
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Keep going, ElComadreja!
Understanding the spoken language will improve as you get more vocabulary. The words and sentences start becoming predictable, after all, an ordinary conversation has much less new information than an ordinary level. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ElComadreja Senior Member Philippines bibletranslatio Joined 7244 days ago 683 posts - 757 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew, Cebuano, French, Tagalog | Message 14 of 145 15 April 2013 at 4:21pm | IP Logged |
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So a couple of times today I was thinking of how to express something in Cebuano and couldn't do it. The
first was, "put that back where you got it from." After doing some grammatical gymnastics, I asked someone and they said, "ibutang balik." Well I certainly tried too hard with that one. The next was (in reference to a tv show), "It takes a while for you to figure out what's going on." Someone came back quickly with, "dugay-dugay pa ayha ka pakabaw unsay nahitabo." This seems like one to commit to memory. Oh, and also I have never even SEEN the word "ayha" before :( But I WAS able to tell someone a couple of sentences about a doctor visit. I had a major flub but figured out what was wrong when I got confused looks, and fixed it. It had to do with the use of "puede" vs the verb prefix "maka-". I want to use puede like it gets used in Spanish, and it won't stand up to that sort of treatment ;) Also pulled out a book I have called Dulaang Cebuano. I have no idea where to get it now because the bookstore I bought it from closed down. Anyway, It has Cebuano plays also translated into Tagalog and English. I understood it a whole lot better than the last time I pulled it out. I'm not sure how useful it is because the newest plays are from the 1920's. I found an online Cebuano newspaper. I couldn't make out the first article I looked at. But you know what? I handed it to a native and they had the same problems that I was, so I don't feel so bad. My oral comprehension seems to have taken a step back. The words are not sounding so separated any more. Edited by ElComadreja on 16 April 2013 at 3:48am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ElComadreja Senior Member Philippines bibletranslatio Joined 7244 days ago 683 posts - 757 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew, Cebuano, French, Tagalog | Message 15 of 145 18 April 2013 at 3:08pm | IP Logged |
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Ok, I seem to know enough words to speak, but can't quite put them together right. The first problem that
arose was... how do I say stuff like "The person who I was talking about..."? My test phrase was "blessed are those who are persecuted..." I sat down with some natives and came up with "Bulaan kadtong mga giPANGlutos...". I capitalized the PANG because that seems to be what corresponds to "who". I looked it up in my Bible and it says "Bulaang ang gilutos." Ok, it looks like I'm making things too hard for myself again. The next thing was "I think" as in "I think I'm getting fat". I was told to use "abi nako", but later found out that that really means "I thought". So I pulled in a native again to figure out what to do. He just said "Nitambok ko." (literally: I got fat -- or I fatted) Oddly enough this is past tense. So, I think the idea is that you state that something happened and then others can give their opinions(??). He said I could add "morag" before the statement to put some doubt in there. Or if you want to be completely unambiguous, "Naghunahuna ko nga nitambok ko" (I just thought that I got fat.) I think it's unusual to use such a statement though. I think I'm starting to understand why Cebuanos speak English the way that they do. EDIT: Oops, nitambok ko can be past or present tense. That's grammar from day 3. :( Edited by ElComadreja on 25 April 2013 at 6:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ElComadreja Senior Member Philippines bibletranslatio Joined 7244 days ago 683 posts - 757 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew, Cebuano, French, Tagalog | Message 16 of 145 25 April 2013 at 6:33pm | IP Logged |
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I've noticed my understanding of Cebuano going in and out over the past several days. One day I won't get a
thing, and the next I get (nearly) everything. I had a native sit down with me and watch a recorded news broadcast that I had already watched once. We paused it whenever I didn't understand something, and other times I would say what I thought it meant, but was unsure. I think this helped ALLOT. I am now watching new broadcasts and am absorbing stuff on the fly. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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