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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| GoldFibre Diglot Senior Member Kuwait koreaninkuwait.com Joined 5985 days ago 467 posts - 472 votes  Speaks: English*, Korean | Message 969 of 3959 17 June 2009 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | ||
I asked my native speaking coworker about it and she said she is only familiar with balang, and had to look up luktón. She also said she doesn't know why they used both words together. So you were right to be suspicious! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 970 of 3959 17 June 2009 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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I know that there are Filipinos all over the world and not least in the Arab world, - but I couldn't ask a native speaker myself, so thanks for doing it. The thing that worries me most here is not that the same animal is mentioned twice in the original sentence, but that your coworker knew balang and not luktón. Unfortunately these dictionaries don't indicate whether a certain term is common or not, - you have to read a lot of genuine texts and listen to a lot of native speakers to get a gut feeling for that, and I'm far from that stage right now.
By the way, congratulations to yourself for keeping a log with more than 500 posts and more than 60.000 views. And for for getting the creative idea of learning Korean in Kuwait! Edited by Iversen on 17 June 2009 at 10:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| GoldFibre Diglot Senior Member Kuwait koreaninkuwait.com Joined 5985 days ago 467 posts - 472 votes Speaks: English*, Korean | Message 971 of 3959 17 June 2009 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | ||
I try to stick to modern reading material in Korean for the same reason. At least in this case if there are grasshoppers on the menu you won't have any doubt what is going to be on your plate! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| josht Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6452 days ago 635 posts - 857 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Spanish, Russian, Dutch | Message 972 of 3959 17 June 2009 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | ||
One for Russian immediately comes to mind: A Phrase and Sentence Dictionary of Spoken Russian. You can take a look at it here, via the Look Inside! feature: Amazon page for Dictionary of Spoken Russian 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 973 of 3959 18 June 2009 at 9:51am | IP Logged | ||
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The book mentioned by Josht does indeed look like it has the same structure. I also have a book at home about Russian root words, where the words are illustrated by sentences with translations (but the book unfortunately totally lacks morphological and syntactical indications, such as the gender of nouns and aspect of verbs so I won't promote it by name here).
Since yesterday I have worked some more with my Tagalog dictionary, and I have the problem that not all the words used in the phrases also are used as lexemes. Sometimes I can find them in my other dictionaries, but they are all fairly small (including the Tagalog-Italian dictionary I bought in Milan), and presumably I could find them on the internet. But then I would lose the conveniency of an all-in-one solution. So I use the simple rule: skip the offending words and concentrate on learning the rest first. For authors out there who might want to write this kind of dictionaries I will sketch the differences between an ordinary dictionary with examples and the kind of book under discussion here: Ordinary good dictionary (OGD): many words without examples Phrase dictionary (PD): no words without examples OGD: mostly only the pertinent parts of the examples PD: complete, but short and simple sentences OGD: examples chosen because they are idiomatic and can't be guessed PD: examples chosen that illustrate typical unproblematic (i.e. unidiomatic) uses of the words OGD: translations of examples into idiomatically correct base language PD: literal translations (hyperliteral translations would be overkill if the sentences are simple enough) OGD: in principle all words in common use of the target language PD: relatively few words because of the space requirements, but all words used in the sentences should also be found as lexemes OGD and PD: A reasonable amount of morphological and syntactical information We have had many debates between people who need a context and those who can learn words directly from dictionaries, but these books (which I for want of a better word call "phrase dictionaries") should be useful for both categories of learners. So why aren't there more of them? Edited by Iversen on 18 June 2009 at 11:39am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 974 of 3959 18 June 2009 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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CAT: Vaig passar part de la nit vegint alguns podcasts, entre altres un program en català de una sèrie anomenada "Espai de terra" Dins daquest program particular es visita la petita ciutat Tossa de Mar que jo també he visitat fa un més, peró aqui per desgràcia solament amb una curta caminada en la vella ciutat enmurallada. Hi havia també una entrevista amb un farer, que ha escrit un llibre sobre els fars a través de l'història. Hi ha tota una una sèrie d'aquests programes, on es visita diferents llocs destacant diversos temes. Quan ja no tinc cable català, es necesari trobar altres fonts...
PORT: Além disso, visitei o site de TV Ciência - mas não havia nenhum programa em direito! Caramba - este foi uma das melhores fontes de filmes relevantes em Português para mim, e por isso espero veramente que ela não seja fechada para sempre (como por exemplo TV Beira e o Museums-TV holandês). Tuve alguns vídeos no arquivo, por exemplo de Timor-Leste e de Angola, mas não foi o que eu tinha vindo alli para ver. Queria ver o programa ao vivo pois isto é tem que vir os novos vídeos no arquivo. E não foi. ----- I have watched a bit of Catalan tonight at the homepage of TV3, where there is a series called "Espai terra". In this particular video of about 15 minuts duration the presenters visited the small coastal town Tossa de Mar (at Costa Brava), which I visited myself about month ago. There was also an interview with a lighthouse keeper who has written a complete history of lighthouses through the ages (including the one at Alexandria, that was declared one of the wonders of the world), - but also a short walk through the old valled city (too short). Besides I have visited the site of TV Ciência for the first time this month, but ... no running program on the screen. That's bad, because this was one of my preferred sources for spoken Portuguese about relevant subjects. There were some videos in the archive, mostly from East-Timor and Angola, but that was not what I came for. I hope sincerely that it hasn't died or become an undead zombie like TV Beira or the Dutch Museums-TV AVRO. Edited by Iversen on 19 June 2009 at 10:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6709 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 975 of 3959 19 June 2009 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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LAT: In tempo prandiis hodie iter Ephemeridem legi, et illic ceteros nomines geographicos inveni qui mihi gaudebant per Niger certe Niger stat, sed nomen novus sententia acceptus est qui certe apta est. "Sierra Leone" in modo logico quam "Mons Leonis" vertitur. "The Netherlands" quam "Batavia" datur, id quod praecedentem historicam habet, et nationes linguiis Romaniciis plerumque sub nominibus antiquiis nominantur: Gallia (aut Francia), Italia, Hispania, Lusitania (vel Portugallia) - etiam Graecia nominem suam antiquam habet.
In Vicipedia lista nominiis nationiis mundi datur. Hic lego quod Natio mea Dania "(vel Cimbria classica)" appelatur - sed istud non recte est quia "Cimbria" vere solum partem Jutlandicae indicat, - in sermo danorum "Himmerland". Vecinus noster "Germania vel Res Publica Foederata Germania" nominatur, vecinu suus "Helvetia vel Confoederatio Helvetica", et nominibus antiquiis tamen habent Irlandia vel Hibernia, Romania vel Dacia, Ucraina vel Sarmatia, Roxolania antiqua. Quid " Ruthenia Alba" significat? Belarus! Et in Asia sunt Tadzikistania vel Sogdiana, Turcmenia vel Saccaea, Uzbecia vel Bactria. "USA" clare "Civitates Foederatae Americae" sunt, et cetera. Ars termonologiae non semper materia sicca est! * (tamen videte "Uups! - et Urbe" ubi papa irreverentisseme seminudus demonstratus est - istud non Mahometi ausus sint!) ----- During my lunch break I read once again the excellent Latin news'paper' Ephemeris, and between articles about global economy, the plights of African agriculture and demonstrations in Teheran I noticed some funny country names: "Mons Leonis" for Sierra Leone, Batavia for Holland etc. To learn more about this corner of Neolatin terminologi I checked Vicipedia (the Latin Wikipeda") and found a list of proposed country names. Of course there are nations outside Europa that never had a name in antiquity, but sometimes there apparently was a name in the Middel ages, - though it puzzles me that the Philippines can be called "Prasodum Insulae antiquae", - but the Spaniards may have used this name in the last years of Latin reign within the cartographical community. Other names suggest some interesting historical information which only specialists know about, such as "Saccaea" for Turkmenistan. And when you have chosen a suitable name for a country (or two alternatives, as in the case of Germania vel Res Publica Foederata Germania"), then you may still have a problem with the adjectival form and the name for its inhabitants, which in the case of Germany often are called "Teudisci" (with a reference to a tribe that presumably passed through the country more than two thousand years ago, - som people have long memories!). The study of nomenclature is not always as dry as you might imagine! Edited by Iversen on 19 June 2009 at 1:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5853 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 976 of 3959 19 June 2009 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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EN: After a very productive study week Turkish, I had already finished my pensum for this week and at my study time at 6:30 in the morning I got the chance to read the American version of "National Geographic". There is also a German version on sale here, but - of course - I want to read this magazine in a foreign language. In this issue there are two very interesting articles. One is called "Ice Baby, Secrets of a frozen Mammoth". This baby mammoth apprears to be in very good shape and is the object of all kinds of paleontologic examinations. And the other interesting article is called "Staking claims to the Arctic Ocean" and deals with the 5 countries USA, Canada, Denmark, Norway and Russia, which claim possession of the Arctic territory.The melting of the north pole ice cap makes the possession of this region with its hidden mineral resources economically attractive. This is quite a relevant topic where political and economical targets are mixed with scientific exploration. Included in this magazine there was a large map of the North Pole region, which now decorates my wall.
ESP: Cxi-verspere estas tempo por la dinosauxroj, cxar ARTE elsendos programon pri kombatantaj dinosauxroj en la kreto-tempo, mi cxerte volas denove rigardi la elsendon. Lundon mi havos mian naskigxtagon, sed mi jam festos gxin morgaux. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 19 June 2009 at 7:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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