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Native teachers without linguistic talent

 Language Learning Forum : General discussion Post Reply
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Splog
Diglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
anthonylauder.c
Joined 5667 days ago
1062 posts - 3263 votes 
Speaks: English*, Czech
Studies: Mandarin

 
 Message 9 of 106
09 June 2010 at 4:13pm | IP Logged 
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
My daughter is fortunate enough to have native speakers as teachers in both English and Spanish. What however is uncomprehensible to me, is that these people who teach languages, and who one must assume are interested in languages, speak such a horrible Norwegian. In particular the American guy, who has worked and lived in Norway for 20 years, has an accent so heavy that it borders on being incomprehensible. The guy from Colombia has a less heavy accent, but they both write a really bad Norwegian, where they rarely have more than three sentences in a row that are spelled correctly.


I have met many TEFL teachers here in Prague, and most of them speak very little Czech because their exposure to the language is much less than you would imagine. It is easy to become cocooned in English: At work they mostly speak English with one another and with their students, and much of their social life revolves around other English-speakers.

The comfort of this language bubble, particularly for English speakers, shields them (both in a good and a bad way) from needing to learn the local language.

We also need to remember that many English teachers are only overseas for a year or two on a "working vacation" ("doing Europe" as one described it to me). So, their motivation to put in the huge effort it takes to learn the local language simply may not be there.

You might expect something different from longer-term expats. However, I have noticed that once people fall into the Expat language bubble, the amount of time spent in a country seems to make little difference to ability with the local language.

This is particularly true of English speakers, of course, since often even "the locals" are keep to practice their English at every chance. However, I have seen similar things happen to expat speakers of other languages. For example when I lived in NY, a friend of Italian origin told me his grandmother had lived in the US for 50 years, but never left the Italian community and so could hardly say a thing in English. Likewise, I met plenty of people who have lived in NYC's Chinatown for decades, and speak mostly Cantonese all day long.

I am sure it is much easier to pick up the local language if you are quite simply forced to, due to there being no cocoon available in your own language. A speaker of Urdu or Icelandic who spoke no English (if such people exist) would probably pick up Czech (or Norwegian) quite quickly, simply out of necessity.

Although, given the availability of the internet, Skype, Cable TV, etc, I also imagine that the so called current "opening up of the world" may actually close it for some people - since they can now relax in the comfort of their own language and culture, no matter where they are.
10 persons have voted this message useful



Kurkko
Diglot
Newbie
Finland
Joined 5673 days ago
21 posts - 23 votes
Studies: Swedish, Finnish*, English
Studies: German, Dutch, Danish, Icelandic

 
 Message 10 of 106
09 June 2010 at 4:15pm | IP Logged 
In our school we had an American teacher teaching English. He didn't speak a word of Finnish. It was ok for students who were good in English and could follow the teaching, but I know there was a few persons in our class who didn't understand him. That's when the ones who understood the teacher helped them. :)

And I must admit that he was a really funny guy.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Sennin
Senior Member
Bulgaria
Joined 6032 days ago
1457 posts - 1759 votes 
5 sounds

 
 Message 11 of 106
09 June 2010 at 6:26pm | IP Logged 
Personally, I don't care about the linguistic talent of teachers. I can figure out grammar on my own, the teacher is there to provide a good example which I can imitate.
1 person has voted this message useful



Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 5332 days ago
4143 posts - 8864 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 12 of 106
09 June 2010 at 11:14pm | IP Logged 
Splog wrote:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
My daughter is fortunate enough to have native speakers as teachers in both English and Spanish. What however is uncomprehensible to me, is that these people who teach languages, and who one must assume are interested in languages, speak such a horrible Norwegian. In particular the American guy, who has worked and lived in Norway for 20 years, has an accent so heavy that it borders on being incomprehensible. The guy from Colombia has a less heavy accent, but they both write a really bad Norwegian, where they rarely have more than three sentences in a row that are spelled correctly.


I have met many TEFL teachers here in Prague, and most of them speak very little Czech because their exposure to the language is much less than you would imagine. It is easy to become cocooned in English: At work they mostly speak English with one another and with their students, and much of their social life revolves around other English-speakers.

The comfort of this language bubble, particularly for English speakers, shields them (both in a good and a bad way) from needing to learn the local language.

We also need to remember that many English teachers are only overseas for a year or two on a "working vacation" ("doing Europe" as one described it to me). So, their motivation to put in the huge effort it takes to learn the local language simply may not be there.

You might expect something different from longer-term expats. However, I have noticed that once people fall into the Expat language bubble, the amount of time spent in a country seems to make little difference to ability with the local language.

This is particularly true of English speakers, of course, since often even "the locals" are keep to practice their English at every chance. However, I have seen similar things happen to expat speakers of other languages. For example when I lived in NY, a friend of Italian origin told me his grandmother had lived in the US for 50 years, but never left the Italian community and so could hardly say a thing in English. Likewise, I met plenty of people who have lived in NYC's Chinatown for decades, and speak mostly Cantonese all day long.

I am sure it is much easier to pick up the local language if you are quite simply forced to, due to there being no cocoon available in your own language. A speaker of Urdu or Icelandic who spoke no English (if such people exist) would probably pick up Czech (or Norwegian) quite quickly, simply out of necessity.

Although, given the availability of the internet, Skype, Cable TV, etc, I also imagine that the so called current "opening up of the world" may actually close it for some people - since they can now relax in the comfort of their own language and culture, no matter where they are.


I agree with all your points, although we do have a lot of people who are native Urdu speakers who never learn proper Norwegian. I have a lot of understanding for that though, because a lot of them have hard jobs, where they are not exposed to a lot of Norwegian. Their literacy also varies wildly.

I am less inclined to be forgiving of a person who works with languages all the time and who is university educated. When my English is better than his Norwegian, and I have been a total of 12 weeks in the UK and the US put together and he has been 20 years in Norway then I am unimpressed of his effort. I would also more easily have understood if his language were some very different Asian language, but since he is English, which is so closely related to our language it makes no sense at all. But perhaps it is just normal - how many examples do you have of foreigners who actually learn to speak your language with only a slight accent, when they have moved there as adults?
6 persons have voted this message useful



Splog
Diglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
anthonylauder.c
Joined 5667 days ago
1062 posts - 3263 votes 
Speaks: English*, Czech
Studies: Mandarin

 
 Message 13 of 106
10 June 2010 at 10:47am | IP Logged 
Solfrid Cristin wrote:

I am less inclined to be forgiving of a person who works with languages all the time and who is university educated.


Just because somebody teaches English does not mean they are a language lover. As far as I can tell, most TEFL teachers only took a short (4 to 6 week) course to become "qualified", and many only do it because it is an easy enough job to get for an English speaker.

As far as I can tell, many are there just to have a bit of fun overseas, and they see the local language as an irritation to ignore rather than a challenge to dive into.

In short, being interested in languages is a minority hobby - just like playing the violin or collecting stamps. Coming to forums like this gives us a distorted view of how many language lovers there are in the real world.
7 persons have voted this message useful



Captain Haddock
Diglot
Senior Member
Japan
kanjicabinet.tumblr.
Joined 6766 days ago
2282 posts - 2814 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese
Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek

 
 Message 14 of 106
10 June 2010 at 11:31am | IP Logged 
Quote:
Just because somebody teaches English does not mean they are a language lover. As far as I can tell, most
TEFL teachers only took a short (4 to 6 week) course to become "qualified", and many only do it because it is an easy
enough job to get for an English speaker.


But that's the problem. We wouldn't expect someone who was ignorant about the principles of chemistry to teach it
because they knew how to work the bunsen burner, or someone who hated math to teach it because they owned a
nice calculator.
11 persons have voted this message useful



irrationale
Tetraglot
Senior Member
China
Joined 6048 days ago
669 posts - 1023 votes 
2 sounds
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Tagalog
Studies: Ancient Greek, Japanese

 
 Message 15 of 106
10 June 2010 at 11:43am | IP Logged 
Splog wrote:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:

I am less inclined to be forgiving of a person who works with languages all the time and who is university educated.


Just because somebody teaches English does not mean they are a language lover. As far as I can tell, most TEFL teachers only took a short (4 to 6 week) course to become "qualified", and many only do it because it is an easy enough job to get for an English speaker.

As far as I can tell, many are there just to have a bit of fun overseas, and they see the local language as an irritation to ignore rather than a challenge to dive into.

In short, being interested in languages is a minority hobby - just like playing the violin or collecting stamps. Coming to forums like this gives us a distorted view of how many language lovers there are in the real world.


+1000
3 persons have voted this message useful



ANK47
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
thearabicstudent.blo
Joined 7095 days ago
188 posts - 259 votes 
Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (classical)

 
 Message 16 of 106
10 June 2010 at 12:22pm | IP Logged 
I personally would rather have a teacher who wasn't very good at speaking my native language. I'm not just saying this to be contrary. I've had experience with teachers who were great at English, but this meant that they wanted to show it off to you. Some of them even felt more comfortable speaking English than the target language so that's what they would use. Even when you asked them to only speak in the target language they would revert back to English after a few minutes because English had become very natural for them. If the teacher only knows limited English then they are forced to speak their native language and the student is forced to deal with the authentic language.

I would rather have someone who knew nothing about the principles of language (read grammar) teach a language class than an educated professor. The uneducated guy will speak to you in the only way he knows how while the professor will simplify things for students because he "knows how to teach". Languages aren't something where someone needs to be taught. You just need someone to speak the language.


2 persons have voted this message useful



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