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A newbie sets out: Braving Mandarin. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| eggcluck Senior Member China Joined 4703 days ago 168 posts - 278 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 65 of 94 10 April 2012 at 12:47pm | IP Logged |
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continue to press on, though my efforts are becoming more lack luster and flailing as almost 6 months of loneliness is finally starting to take chunks out of me. I have yet to see any benefit from my efforts as my attempts to find a language partner continue to be nothing more than stumbling around in the wastelands of rejection. Given the whole point of learning this language is to talk to people and no one seems to be willing I am considering just simply giving up as I see no point to it all.
Current status:- shadowing 103-105 scriptorium 97-99 Pimsleur II 13 Assimil passive 68 Active 20 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| eggcluck Senior Member China Joined 4703 days ago 168 posts - 278 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 66 of 94 16 April 2012 at 1:42pm | IP Logged |
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I continue to soldier on from my embattled position. Given the lack of support and encourage at this current low, I have been trying to find ways to keep myself motivated. Currently this means all but abandoning SRS, as I feel that this is the biggest drain on my will. I still do some SRS cards but only when I feel like it.
I have finished with shadowing and scriptorium is up to lessons 100-102 after that it will be time to go into the home straight of the typing dictation phrase. I have yet to start my mission to go through all the hanzi I did with RTK with the pronunciation though I have started FSI. I have skimmed through module 1 but have decided to make my way through the resource module. I am glad I have done so as I think the pronunciation part of this module is very useful due to its explanations on the more technical sides of pronunciation that has been a great help. It is not something I have found in other things I have tried. I have just passed myself on Pimsleur two lesson 15 today. It has been slow progress with Pimsleur as I find myself now routinely having to repeat at least one each of these lessons. Though 15 was easy as thanks to Assimil there was nothing new in it. I finally got around to trying shared talk as well. While I have only visited it once to date, I have had a much greater response of people than what I did with the likes of conversation exchange. I am hopeful this is what I have been looking for. Though there has been a number of people that have become grouchy if I did not respond in less than a second. Finally was able to put myself in a mood to endure the terrestrial TV. I am also glad I did as while it is still incomprehensible to me, I have a greater understanding of things on it than what I did last time I switched on the goggle box. This gave me some much needed encouragement. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5024 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 67 of 94 16 April 2012 at 7:12pm | IP Logged |
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I really hope things pick up for you soon.
Now take what I say with a pinch of salt, because I don't learn Chinese. But if I where you I would drop stuff like scriptorium for the moment. I can't see how it will help to much with your immediate situation. Look on the bright side. Your only half way through Pimsleur 2. Most people can't do much in any language at this stage. As for Assiml, well its great, by its not set up in such a way that you can make immediate use of it if your actually in the country. If I where you I would make finishing Pimsleur a priority, and then think about what you NEED to be able to say in your immediate situation. Focus on learning those things first. Who cares if you finish your srs today or not? You need to be able to SPEAK, even if it is small talk, and you need to be able to do it NOW. I would of thought FSI would be a big help, they are generally the only courses that really get you talking, and the sooner you can talk to people, the sooner you will be able to deal with your feelings of isolation. Irrationale's log will show you how far this can take you. Read it, it's really inspirational. I take it you've looked at Benny Lewis's blog? I don't like the way that guy conducts himself, but he does have some good advice for people in your situation. You shouldn't beat yourself up, Chinese is HARD! That guy is an experienced language learner but he's been learning full time, in country for over 3 months, and according to most people he's still at A2. I hope the above is of help, and I help things start to pick up soon, because it doesn't sound like your having fun. I have been alone in an Asian country, with very few people to talk to before, and I got very lonely, even though I was only there for 2 weeks, so 6 months must be miserable. But I guess now you need to stick with it until it comes good. Maybe some of the experienced language learners on here can help you out with the specifics? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| eggcluck Senior Member China Joined 4703 days ago 168 posts - 278 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 68 of 94 17 April 2012 at 3:32am | IP Logged |
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Firstly thanks for the support it is appreciated!
I think I will finish Scriptorium though as there is less than 5 lessons to go now and it has proven helpful in remembering the characters which is important given everyday items like menus are in written in Characters! While the larger cities do have menus with pictures I am not in major city and so a menu here normally consists of a block of Chinese characters on the wall! My plan to deal with the draw backs of Assimil was simply talking to people but well you know the story of that so far, heh. Though self talk and trying to talk about the content of each lesson has been a big help. I can not say a great deal but what I can say comes out fairly smoothly with little stuttering. I am early days into FSI having skipped over module 1 and making my way through the resource module, which I find to be very useful and I hope the rest of FSI comes out that interesting and useful. I have heard people say bad things about the recording but I just love that narrators voice I find it very soothing and much more pleasant than the narrators voice in Pimsleur! I am aware of that guys blog, though he seems to be focused on being in all the Capital cities, while the smaller places such as I find myself in at face value may not be different. I think there are some issues that make a smaller place a more unique challenge such as less places to go, the more conservative mindset of the locals , less availability of resources and in my case no availability of tutors for my little pronunciation dilemma. That said this place is a virtual language learners paradise with all the people from Japan, Korea, Germany, Netherlands, and Spain that have set up shop here. Once I even ran into a guy from Ghana. Being here is no easy ride that is for sure, though I did not expect it to be. Though I did think it would have been easier to find people to talk to than what it has been! In hindsight I wish I had of ignored conversation exchange and gone to Shared talk, so far it is working out a lot better. Some tips from the more experienced would be welcome, though I think for the most part this log is largely just a long ramble to myself and a venue to vent my frustrations. I keep it going as I re-read it from time to time and it is encouring to see how much I have been able to do despite the set backs, a record of progress is a wonderfull thing and I would reccomend it to anyone even if it is just a little book you keep in a drawer by your desk! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| eggcluck Senior Member China Joined 4703 days ago 168 posts - 278 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 69 of 94 01 May 2012 at 3:46pm | IP Logged |
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Well another month is up.
I continue to claw my way forward despite the increasing feelings of isolation. Add being cheated a few more times, to my list of wonderful experiences! I tried to recharge my batteries a little with an excursion to a smaller local town. It was such a nice place though I felt more self conscious than usual with the increased levels of staring and pointing. Perhaps I should post a link here to share a few pics with anyone kind enough to endure reading this awful log. While I have received little in the way of help and advice I am eternally grateful to those few that have took the time to offer me some advice, I mean it guys, thanks. The forth coming picture link is dedicated to you! This marks the second month of my try out with binaural beats. After giving it a good run I have decided that there are no beneficial effects and the quackery around is just that, quackery. Trying to get out more, I am looking for a way to try and do some study outside but it is not easy as for the most part I am chained to my computer as I am unable to find any offline resources save for the assimil set I own which is now well on its way to completion. Thus far everywhere has simply been too busy with car horns blaring away at all hours. 6 months and I am still looking for a conversation partner, I have been let down and stood up so many times now I do not care to count and I am just going through the motions in this to date still fruitless search. The grind with pimsluer continues but I am becoming more and more aware of just how out of touch the content of pimsleur is. One example is buying train tickets. Pimsleurs teaches a rather long winded sentence but what I have observed at the actual train station the locals just simply say “to …..” with non of the pomp pimsleur would have you spurt out. Also the vocabulary pimsluer teaches is not the vocabulary the locals use for the same things. What Pimsleur says means taxi is not what the locals use for taxi. The effort with the hanzi readings from my sole volume of RTH has also begun. I have elected to do five a day as to create one card takes an inordinately long amount of time mostly due to how inappropriate the example sentences are in some of these online dictionaries, despite them claiming to be learners dictionaries and the lack of an all in one option leaving me to jump from dictionary to dictionary in search of what I need. That and of course I expect to pick up many reading as I go I think from this point when I encounter a new reading that is in the HTK deck I will add in using whatever source I came it in as the example sentence, probably a better be that the ridiculous sentences provided by some of this online dictionaries. With MDGB being the most ridiculous of the lot. The run into FSI has started also, today I tried to do a whole unit and came to the conclusion at this present moment in time that is unsuitable to do so given the current remaining commitments I have. As such I will press forward with the learning material on one day and then the exercise and drill type material another day. Taking two days per unit until such time I where I can provide more hours to it. That said I quite like the audio it is the closest to native that I have heard in any of my resources. While people complain about the poor quality of the audio I find it great with all that background noise. Real life does not occur in a sound proofed recording studio. After reaching the typing phase home straight of the shadowing run through I now feel that I can give it a better appraisal. I must say I like it. It is a low stress way to make some real progress. In hindsight though I think it would have been more effective if the first run through with the assimil method and then follow that up with the shadowing, but hey, live and learn. The instructions are not clear about the final dictation typing phase. I have been stopping the recording after each sentence. This has proven to be a necessity given the nature of the hanzi input system since it is no where near as fast as typing with the Latin alphabet. SRS of course continues to blow rotten stinking piles of manure all over me but I persist. Continuing to add cards from Assimil and Pimsleur. For this month I will try not to embark on any new experiments given the load I already currently have and that group is probably being covered by my foray into FSI and hanzi reading Since I am watching an hour of Madarin TV a day anyway I have elected to join a recently announced challenge on the forum. I am unable to join twitter given my location but I hope the simple act of signing up will help spur me on with my endeavours. The only difficulty I can foresee in reaching the book quota, as suitable books have proven difficult to get and the only option may be to spend yet more time chained to the desk and computer searching for online books while my rear end becomes increasingly numb. 6 months of 4-6 hours a day of solid study and I have so little to show for it. It is truly depressing to see people study for half that time and yet make much faster progress. Now I just feel so tired. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| eggcluck Senior Member China Joined 4703 days ago 168 posts - 278 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 70 of 94 11 May 2012 at 5:04pm | IP Logged |
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“ I think I can, I think I can, I think I can”. That little steam engine's mantra pretty much sums up what I am feeling at the moment. The long slog continues. Having now spent over 6 months in isolation with no contact with family back home drinking water laced with heavy metals, I sometimes wonder if I have not gone at least a little doo lally.
The amount of time I am studying remains steady with only daily mundane things and the work with it's resulting tiredness that occasionally result in a day with little done. FSI unit 6 seemed to be particularly long and has so far taken me more than the 2 days per unit I originally had hoped to achieve. At this point am I not too fussed as I am doing plenty of other things so it is not like there is a lack of continual effort. Which brings me onto my next thought. While I quite like the variety in the number of things I am currently doing, I can not help but wonder if I would be better placed just focusing on a fewer number of things. I do have a pending list of things to do but I think for the time being as each of my current projects finish I will just push that gained time into one of the on going projects rather than take up a new one. I thought about speeding up Assimil or Pimsleur to 2 lessons a day to bring about this change. I have settled on Assimil due to having already been through it with shadowing and the only advice given in it against more than one a day was simply to feel “at ease”. Given all the time my isolation lends me one more lesson I feel will be no great hurdle, whether I have the spare time to fit in it or not, however remains to be seen. I have dropped the dictation typing phase of the scriptorium on the grounds that given that I am handwriting out the listening cards from the SRS I have no need to go through this portion so I am now declaring that I have now completed the shadowing run through the Assimil books. I have made some headway into this super challenge thing, the movie count will be no problem. The books however seem a daunting task. Having tried my hand at a simple fairy tail compendium today, it would seem that there is no choice but to engage in the very draining intensive reading style. Something that will no doubt slow me down significantly. Not to mention after a dictionary look up I am often still as clueless as I was without it. Oh, perchance to have a language exchange partner available to help clear these sentences up for me! Admitting defeat is not something I am accustomed too, there must be something I can do to meet people. I have exhausted the roster of all the co-workers and pretty much non of them no nothing about what exists out side of their commute between work and home. It has also become apparent that there are two camps of ex-pat here. Those on the “ex-pat package” they usually work for companies have maids, big company funded houses, free Chinese lessons, drivers and local workers assigned to attend to their every need and show them around. If they want something it is normally on their desk by morning and they have never seen a visa form in their life. Then they spend all their time abusing girls, dating others wives saying how great everything is belittling others who dare say life here is hard and the people are unfriendly, after all they have people practically throwing themselves at them. Then there is the other camp , those who are pretty much on their own. Facing unfriendly locals and being attacked by young gangs of nationalists, no one to show them the ropes and find it impossible to go a week without being cheated. Who spend their time saying how they want to throw the ex-pat package guys out a high window. I find myself having to agree with the latter, these package guys will actively refuse to talk to if you do not hold some sort of gold pass, seriously. There has been occasions where I have wanted to plant my foot into their faces. Fortunately there are not too many of them here as they are mostly concentrated around Hong Kong, Shanghai and of course Beijing. http://www.sendspace.com/file/7bz4w4 Edited by eggcluck on 11 May 2012 at 5:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| eggcluck Senior Member China Joined 4703 days ago 168 posts - 278 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 71 of 94 18 May 2012 at 11:23am | IP Logged |
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Study is still progressing forward. There has been a couple of instances where I have done a double Assimil session but not as many as I would have liked. This has mainly been due to time constraints but the reasons for those constraints to the contrary has left me feeling rather pleased.
Aside from just getting out to see some places and re-charge my batteries I may have finally found some serious candidates for that elusive language partner I have been searching so desperately for. Early days yet but I have more hope for this one than the others. One such place was Tiger hill in Suzhou. I went there with some of the more friendly co-workers and a couple of Chinese people. I travelled with the Chinese people so naturally everything was in Chinese between themselves not that I minded, I interjected where I could! It was quite a nice relaxing place anyone in the Shanghai area should pay it a visit. I have made some faltering attempts at various points along the way such as trying to make small talk with taxi drivers but it never ends well as I usually have no comprehension of the answer. Though I am happy with what I can say given the lack of speaking practice I have had it is great to even just spit out some Tarzan style utterances. Given that I have had almost no speaking practice save the parroting of pimsluer, FSI and shadowing it would seem that these do indeed help. Though I have noticed most of what I do say has nothing in common with what I have encountered in Pimsleur. It has me wondering how relevant the content is to actually living here in China. That said I have been making heavy use of text chat too, that is also probably having a positive effect. Though there is one guy that is quite pushy. It is great he is so serious about getting better with beginner level English and for me to since he often resorts to Chinese. But he is relentless, wanting to do audio calls for two hours at 23:00 when we are two speaking beginners just makes my head melt. I hide my online status from him unless I feel up to such a slog. I have a preference to the more reasonable potential partners! I did reach the end of Pimsluer 2. I suspect I will not learn much from 3 but I intend to steam through for the sake of completion. Though in my current drive to focus on a few things it is on the to do pile. I have only the review section of FSI module two to do once that is done that will also find its way into the to do pile and I go all out with getting Assimil done and dusted. I have found a number of mistakes in assimil along the way some I have noticed myself (yay) others have been pointed out to be the more proficient locals. In fact in one lesson they are convinced Assimil has tried to coin a new word! They were evidently amused by it as they have been throwing it around and using it ever since, I wonder if it will catch on and spread? Of course even though they are native Chinese they are not native Mandarin speakers so maybe it is a word they do not know. It is still hard for me to get my head around this aspect. They all speak Mandarin so well yet all of them learned as a second language at school at the same time it is encouraging. Considering how far I have now come with my study materials I want to start putting more and more emphasis on actual use and production. While I have already made attempts to do so I have not been very successful as past entries will demonstrate. I am hoping the higher focus on just a few learning materials will free up some time for more production orientated activities. Even if it is just text chat. While I have not made much headway with the super challenge I have signed up for, I have watched 4 movies and started a book. Of course the book is slow going, really slow going. Not only do I need to look up definitions but I have to look up characters first. The movie goal will be easy. The book goal will certainly but a hard challenge for me to meet. Though of course I am getting comprehensible reading in the form of my study materials I will eventually count them as a book. While the content is not particularly dense I have been through the books several times not to mention a good portion of them have been placed as sentences into SRS. My systematic Hanzi mission is also on hold and now also has a seat on the to do list in the low priority section. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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