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Not Studying Grammar | ||
Tags: Natural method | Grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4255 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes  Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 17 of 89 12 August 2013 at 9:40am | IP Logged | ||
I think the total amount of books I was made to read between classes three and nine was a total of four or something. Could be lower but certainly not higher. In gymnasium we had to read a whopping one book for the last three years of English lessons. It does depend on teacher. The amount of Swedish books I was made to read was exactly one and that was on my second last year. In conclusion if you want a wide active vocabulary and an exquisite command of the structure of the language you should communicate in it. I've found even posting on forums to be quite alright for that, seeing as there are forums where I have thousands of posts in English and snarky enough people to poke fun of me when I make a mistake. I have made around twenty thousand posts on different forums in English in my life and thanks to that nearly all basic patterns of English are deeply engrained in my brain. Forum posts are not the only thing however, you could find a native English speaker (who can spell and pays attention to correct use of grammar) to chat with on instant messengers and such. Just use the basic patterns again and again and eventually they're so hard in there you couldn't forget them if you wanted to. Edited by Henkkles on 12 August 2013 at 9:41am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Rebecka95 Triglot Newbie SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4130 days ago 4 posts - 7 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, Spanish | Message 18 of 89 12 August 2013 at 9:55am | IP Logged | ||
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Grammar is important, there could be a risk to end up with only speaking in present tense or something. But I don't think it is that important to know that the tense is called imperfect or the modus subjunctive or whatever. You could try Michael Thomas in addition to other studies, he doesn't use any grammatical words.
And about learning as a baby, I don't really see how one could just forget the mother language for a while. The closest one can get is probably the MT-method. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4535 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 19 of 89 12 August 2013 at 10:07am | IP Logged | ||
Thanks for the interesting post. :) I agree that active writing/speaking might well be sufficient condition for learning to communicate well in a language. But unless you are a very hard working troll, it's likely you've read at least as many posts as you have written (presumably multiples more). The same is true for talking or any other form of communication. What is interesting is that you don't spontaneously list studying grammar t school/university as a big asset in learning English. Edited by patrickwilken on 12 August 2013 at 10:12am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4255 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 20 of 89 12 August 2013 at 10:23am | IP Logged | ||
That is exactly what I meant, I write and get replies that have native speakers correctly using the patterns so I can imitate. I've read at least ten times that amount of posts. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Stelle Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada tobefluent.com Joined 4146 days ago 949 posts - 1686 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Spanish Studies: Tagalog | Message 21 of 89 12 August 2013 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | ||
This is me. I get so frustrated during Skype conversations! But if nothing else, it makes me want to dig into the grammar a bit more. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5132 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 22 of 89 12 August 2013 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | ||
It's kind of a catch-22 for some lesser-studied languages, I think. For languages that have a ton of resources for listening, etc. I don't think grammar is all that important. Things get sorted out just by exposure. But for languages that don't have many resources, studying grammar can help a lot. Not to mention that some of the few resources that you can find for lesser-known languages tend to be a bit more on the scholarly side and tend to use grammatical terms. They'll tell you you need to use the accusative case, because it refers to the direct object. But then you have to know what a direct object is, so knowing *some* grammar can certainly be beneficial. R. == 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| cpnlsn Triglot Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6175 days ago 22 posts - 29 votes Speaks: English*, French, German | Message 23 of 89 13 August 2013 at 12:03am | IP Logged | ||
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For me grammar has two parts. The very basic grammar to start one off and enable one to
make a start with the language and the more complex grammar to aid progress with more complex matters as one progresses. So I think that grammar has a role but one can't learn a language from grammar alone. I think that exposure works wonders and one can intuit a lot but one can intuit a whole lot more by doing grammar as one goes along and supplementing one's input with some grammar. My model would be INPUT -> GRAMMAR -> INPUT and so on. So it is an iterative process. I also see grammar knowledge and understanding as a kind of trade off between foregrounding and backgrounding so both have a role - the more fluent use of grammar is where the grammar rules are intuited. The upshot therefore is I would retain grammar.I do agree that input and speaking are generally more important but I think grammar in a guise that one can accept (some grammars are usable by beginners others are too advanced or specialist). So, for me, a little grammar perhaps goes a long way, whereas too much or not enough can hinder one's progress. So for me, grammar should be no more than 10% with plenty of input and speaking practice. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4264 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes Studies: Portuguese | Message 24 of 89 13 August 2013 at 12:38am | IP Logged | ||
It doesn't help knowing the terms for all the tenses, but the people that are grammar ballers usually *do* know them because they have spent many hours studying grammar, speak damn good, and sometimes hold advanced degrees in grammar study of a foreign language. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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