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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Darya0Khoshki Triglot Groupie United States Joined 5066 days ago 71 posts - 91 votes  Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (Iraqi) Studies: Persian | Message 1 of 7 22 August 2013 at 6:53am | IP Logged |
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How do you handle mixed feedback in language learning? Has this ever happened to you? You can expect mixed feedback within a range because everyone has different standards of what they think is good or bad and it is semi-subjective, but what about the issue of accent? Has anyone ever had native speakers from the same country disagree about whether or not a non-native speaker had an accent, consistently?
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| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5205 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 2 of 7 22 August 2013 at 10:51am | IP Logged |
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I have a similar predicament. Some people have said I'm fluent in my languages, others say that if I keep up the work for a while I could eventually be fluent. Some say I have a decent accent - I've been told that I sound like a French speaker from places outside France a few times (Canada, Belgium, Switzerland), and that I speak Italian like someone from the North of Italy - and some know that I'm an English speaker or even a Scot as soon as I open my mouth. You also have to consider implicit feedback - for example, if someone replies to you in the target language then that could mean they think you're a decent speaker, and if they reply in English then they maybe think you're not - but that also depends on many other factors such as their general attitude.
Considering the fact that people (even, if not especially, teachers) often exaggerate to encourage you and to stroke your ego, I tend to take the more negative feedback a bit more seriously: I figure that someone wouldn't give negative feedback unless they really meant it. But at the end of the day, it's confusing and I just don't know what to believe. The politically-correct answer would be "don't care what others think, just judge by your own standards", but in the real world that's not exactly realistic, and if you're learning a language to communicate then the perceptions of the people you're communicating with are extremely important. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |
| anime Triglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6358 days ago 161 posts - 207 votes Speaks: Spanish, Swedish*, English Studies: German, Portuguese, French, Russian | Message 3 of 7 22 August 2013 at 11:46am | IP Logged |
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Probably just believe intelligent people you like and connect with, some people are just ignorant, stupid,
douchebags, trying to test you etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5007 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 4 of 7 22 August 2013 at 12:22pm | IP Logged |
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Easily. Start with where you can see your strengths and weaknesses and what you want to improve because you feel the need. You know your skills the best as you are the one who uses them And if you want good external feedback, do a language exam, like the DELF/DALF or DELE. Not sure what is there for Arabic learners but there surely must be something. Of course, there are some limitations as various tests have various reliability and various relevance to real skills. But it is usually much better feedback than "Johny told me".
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| Darya0Khoshki Triglot Groupie United States Joined 5066 days ago 71 posts - 91 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (Iraqi) Studies: Persian | Message 5 of 7 22 August 2013 at 1:30pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks for your helpful answers. I can understand that with - for example, Kurdish, which mine is ridiculously bad, ha, ha - I've had some people mistake me for a native speaker at first and that's probably because my pronunciation is decent enough that I can say a couple words convincingly.
With Farsi (with which I'm also something of a beginner), I've had several Iranians tell me that I sound Afghan to them even though I have no exposure to Afghan Farsi at all. I guess I just have a weird accent and they don't know what it is. Yesterday, a well meaning Iranian girl told me I sounded Afghan and that I should try to change my accent by watching Iranian movies and she knew another American who learned a perfect Esfahani accent, etc. I had to laugh, because all I listen to is Iranian and I'm trying my best. Though she was trying to be helpful, the message I got was that she didn't like the way I talk, ha, ha. I'm most confused with Arabic because I get DRAMATICALLY mixed feedback with that, like I'm either perfect or horrible but never in between. I should be good (I've been doing it for 11 years at least) and I have the capability of speaking well but discouraging experiences with native speakers are making me lose my confidence and feel shy and inhibit me because I get the feeling that most - regardless of how horrible their English is - would rather speak English. I've had many native speakers swear up and down that I don't have an accent (they volunteer this, I don't ask them), and even more mistake me for some sort of Arab (usually Iraqi, occasionally Lebanese or another country)(not just to my face but behind my back to other people, so I guess they really actually believe this!) but that can't possible be true because I've had others switch to English as soon as I open my mouth (or do other things that give me the impression that they think I'm bad, such as asking me if I know what really basic words mean, ha, ha ...) While I don't believe by any means that my accent is perfect, I would assume it would have to be good for anyone to ever be able to honestly say that I "don't have an accent", and if I get consistently mistaken for a native speaker, yet those other experiences (such as people switching to English as soon as I say one sentence in Arabic) makes me think that it must be horrible! I thought well, maybe I have good days and bad days, but I don't usually hear a difference in myself, and if I do it doesn't seem to correlate with when people think I'm bad or good. The right answer is - as you said - don't care what people think, and I don't except I don't want to inflict myself on people if I'm really bad or insult them by speaking (whatever language) to them if they think their English is better than my TL. I don't expect to be perfect, but I do expect to be successful, and I don't feel like my efforts are being received well and so it makes for a discouraging experience. How do you gain confidence this way? I really want to work hard and do better and get practice but I am very sensitive about irritating people if I really am that bad. I don't want to make them listen to me if I'm really horrible. I really envy people who can just confidently speak TL, even though not perfectly, without getting shut down. ;-) Edited by Darya0Khoshki on 22 August 2013 at 1:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Darya0Khoshki Triglot Groupie United States Joined 5066 days ago 71 posts - 91 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (Iraqi) Studies: Persian | Message 6 of 7 22 August 2013 at 1:38pm | IP Logged |
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Oh, it's important to add that people's feedback has nothing to do with how I look, either, because I look Middle Eastern, so they have no way of knowing from my appearance that I am not Iranian / Kurdish / Arab etc.
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| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5007 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 7 of 7 22 August 2013 at 5:18pm | IP Logged |
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There hae been recently discussion about similar issues on garyb's log and a few other threads concerning the French. It is much harder to practice French in France than Italian in Italy, Spanish in Spain or German in Germany.
The only thing you can do, in my opinion, is to divide your self-feedback and relevant feedback (exams or speakers who either speak ok with you or seem not to understand for real etc.) from these people who judge your origin instead of your skills. It is hard sometimes. But as long as you can gain both confidence and relevant info from self-feedback (I can read this article with only one word looked up, I can understand that movie, I have trouble speaking about his topic, I think my pronunciation gets more similar to the native audio etc.), you should be ok. And if you keep working on it, there might come a day when most natives won't act moronic anymore because your skills will just be more than undeniable. I know eleven years are a lot of time (I just realized I've been learning French for 13 years and still about 25-50% of the speakers act that dumb way with me no matter the often low level of their English.) but for some languages, it just takes really long and requires really high level to get the imaginary "accepted as a speaker" stamp on your forehead. Edited by Cavesa on 22 August 2013 at 5:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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